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'[AD] International Shipping WAS New TTL to RS-232'
2005\03\21@174845 by James Newtons Massmind

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Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that method, a
significant percentage of them have simply disappeared in customs. Maybe I
don't fill out the triplicate forms correctly, or maybe it was because I was
shipping to other countries, but I have decided I need to use registered
mail. That way the customs office in the destination country can't say it
didn't arrive. They cost about $7.50 on top of the standard $5 or so for air
mail shipping. Next I have to fill out three forms by hand. I can't print it
from the computer. Then I have to go to the post office and stand in line.
For all of that, I ask a few dollars. The result is $15 Shipping and
Handling.

If YOU want to pay the shipping and YOU take the risk then I would be happy
to send it however you like. Send me $17 + $5 postage and I will order the
Priority mail box from usps.com and when I get it, I will put the unit in
and off it will go to the post box in front of my house. But don't call me
if it doesn't arrive. I will have a picture of it setting there to show you,
and that is it.

If you pay the extra $10, and it gets lost, I will send another one and file
my claim with the USPS to be paid back for the lost one.

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2005\03\21@181354 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that
> method, a significant percentage of them have simply
> disappeared in customs.

I've sent *hundreds* of packages/letter from Sweden to the US,
aprox 500-600 during 2004 alone, probably over 1.000 total.
And *only* using standard letter airmail, not a single registred
package.

Only one (1) "lost" package around Christmas 2003. That one was
simply replaced with a new one...

I try to keep a low shipping cost. The additinal sells that gives
pays for an occational re-shippment, if ever... YMMV, of course. :-)

Anyway,

> Send me $17 + $5 postage...

I was actualy going to ask for a price on 50 or 100
of them. Incl shipping. Or would it be better to ask
Digital Nemesis directly ?

Jan-Erik.



2005\03\21@184635 by James Newton, Host

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You should talk to Ash directly.

---
James.



{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\03\21@185753 by Russell McMahon

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> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that
> method, a
> significant percentage of them have simply disappeared in customs.

I have had good results getting books from the USA using the Global
Priority Express envelopes. Could be used for small freight
presumably.


       RM

2005\03\21@211232 by olin_piclist

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Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> I was actualy going to ask for a price on 50 or 100
> of them. Incl shipping. Or would it be better to ask
> Digital Nemesis directly ?

I can also provide a good deal on my converter at those quantities.  Contact
me off list if you're interested.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

2005\03\22@043220 by Howard Winter

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James,

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:48:38 -0800, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that method, a
> significant percentage of them have simply disappeared in customs.

I've seen you say this a number of times, and I have been meaning to ask:  How do you know where it
disappeared?  As you're talking about a non-traceable service, how do you know it wasn't post office workers
at either end, baggage handlers (they don't call the world's busiest international airport "thiefrow" for
nothing!), customs-clearance agents, whatever?  I presume you mean Customs at the delivery end since I don't
think they get involved at the sending end, but I don't believe that UK Customs would be into stealing PCBs or
electronics kits!

> Maybe I don't fill out the triplicate forms correctly

I never understand why you do this - whenever I get stuff from the likes of Glitchbuster or Peter Anderson
(both of whom use Global Express) they have just used the little green "CN22" labels, with barely enough room
to write "Electronic parts" and the value.  Who said you need to do the full Customs Declaration?

> or maybe it was because I was shipping to other countries

Well Customs certainly wouldn't have been involved if you didn't!  :-)

> but I have decided I need to use registered
> mail. That way the customs office in the destination country can't say it
> didn't arrive. They cost about $7.50 on top of the standard $5 or so for air
> mail shipping.

At your end, but then at this end it goes by a different route which costs a lot more in Customs clearance
fees - I've paid US$25 before now for them to collect $15 in VAT, so add that to the $7.50 plus $5 you mention
and it can easily double the cost of the goods.  When it comes by Global Priority the clearance fee is US$8,
but the likelihood of them charging the VAT seems to be rather less in the first place.

> Next I have to fill out three forms by hand. I can't print it
> from the computer. Then I have to go to the post office and stand in line.
> For all of that, I ask a few dollars. The result is $15 Shipping and
> Handling.

At your end, but see above!

> If YOU want to pay the shipping and YOU take the risk then I would be happy
> to send it however you like.

This is a change of heart then - previously when I've asked for this, you've said "No"!  :-)

I now have another strategy though: having met on the Internet I now have a girlfriend who lives in New York,
so in future I'll ask you to send it there, and she can send it on (or either of us can carry it next time we
cross the pond).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\03\22@052427 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Howard Winter wrote :

> I now have another strategy though: having met on the
> Internet I now have a girlfriend who lives in New York,
> so in future I'll ask you to send it there, and she can send
> it on (or either of us can carry it next time we
> cross the pond).

Now, that is a creative idea !
Now you only need one in AU to pick up stuff from "down under",
and maybe one in HK to pick up stuff from Peter at DIY, and one in...

:-) :-)

Jan-Erik.



2005\03\22@073405 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

>> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that
>> method, a significant percentage of them have simply
>> disappeared in customs.
>
> I've sent *hundreds* of packages/letter from Sweden to the US,
> aprox 500-600 during 2004 alone, probably over 1.000 total.
> And *only* using standard letter airmail, not a single registred
> package.
>
> Only one (1) "lost" package around Christmas 2003. That one was
> simply replaced with a new one...

I get sometimes stuff shipped to Brazil from Europe or the USA. Standard
mail packages disappear regularly. It's impossible to tell /where/ exactly
they disappear, but since I never had this happen in the countries on the
other end, I suppose it's safe to assume that they disappear on this end
:-/  

Not sure though whether it's in customs or elsewhere, and it's also not
clear whether it's by accident or intentionally.

Moral of the story: It depends a lot on where you ship to. And James's
approach to let the customer choose (and to not take responsibility if it
disappears and he has no way to get reimbursed) makes sense.

Gerhard

2005\03\22@075544 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote :

> I get sometimes stuff shipped to Brazil from Europe or the
> USA. Standard mail packages disappear regularly. It's
> impossible to tell /where/ exactly they disappear, but
> since I never had this happen in the countries on the
> other end, I suppose it's safe to assume that they
> disappear on this end :-/  

One thing is to try to make sure that the letter/package
doesn't look too inviting for those handling it.
Such as printing "512 Mb standard PC memory" on the
outside or something. That package would definitly
disappear at once :-)


> Moral of the story: It depends a lot on where you ship to.
> And James's approach to let the customer choose (and to
> not take  responsibility if it disappears and he has no way
> to get reimbursed) makes sense.

Sure it does !
But that was not specified on the original page (to which
my original note was made).

*I* would have put the cheapest shipping cost
available on the page and then made a note about that "other
shipping options, such as registred mail, available on request".
A (too) high shipping cost drives people away from your site
and products.

Now, it also comes down to the real will of the seller (not talking
about James, but in general) to make intl shipments at all, of course...
:-)

Regards,
Jan-Erik



2005\03\22@144228 by Philip Pemberton

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In message <11373065.1111496143520.JavaMail.tomcat@pne-ps3-sn1>
         Jan-Erik Soderholm <.....jan-erik.soderholmKILLspamspam.....telia.com> wrote:

> One thing is to try to make sure that the letter/package
> doesn't look too inviting for those handling it.
> Such as printing "512 Mb standard PC memory" on the
> outside or something. That package would definitly
> disappear at once :-)

"Electronic components" or "Electronic device" is usually good enough, IME.
Technically a DDR-RAM stick *is* an electronic device (more likely a
component, but that's pretty subjective).
I did have the misfortune of having a parcel go missing once - a motherboard
that was being sent from the US to the UK - the box arrived empty. The CN22
had all the major specs on the board. "AthlonXP + Motherboard". And the
seller wondered why it vanished.

> Now, it also comes down to the real will of the seller (not talking
> about James, but in general) to make intl shipments at all, of course...
> :-)

I try and sell within the UK wherever possible, but I will sell stuff
internationally. I will NOT sell to fraud hotspots - Nigeria, eastern Asia,
that sort of area. I do, however, buy a lot of stuff internationally - mostly
from the USA and Western Europe.

Later.
--
Phil.                              | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
EraseMEphilpemspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTphilpem.me.uk              | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Govt investigations contribute more to amusement than knowledge.

2005\03\22@161255 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> I've seen you say this a number of times, and I have been
> meaning to ask:  How do you know where it disappeared?  As
> you're talking about a non-traceable service, how do you know
> it wasn't post office workers at either end, baggage handlers
> (they don't call the world's busiest international airport
> "thiefrow" for nothing!), customs-clearance agents, whatever?
>  I presume you mean Customs at the delivery end since I don't
> think they get involved at the sending end, but I don't
> believe that UK Customs would be into stealing PCBs or
> electronics kits!

I don't really know where it disappeared. I've always used "trackable"
shipping, like Priority Mail and the tracking has always indicated that it
was turned over to customs in the destination country. End of trail. It
could have been customs, their postal service or, just as likely, the
customer cheating me.

> > Maybe I don't fill out the triplicate forms correctly
>
> I never understand why you do this - whenever I get stuff
> from the likes of Glitchbuster or Peter Anderson (both of
> whom use Global Express) they have just used the little green
> "CN22" labels, with barely enough room to write "Electronic
> parts" and the value.  Who said you need to do the full
> Customs Declaration?

I use the CN22. The "triplicate" forms I refer to are 1) the CN22, 2) the
insurance form, 3) the signature proof form. Actually, I don't usually do
the signature proof anymore (only about half ever made it back) and I do
understand that the insurance is a separate thing from customs so it really
is just one form.

> > or maybe it was because I was shipping to other countries
>
> Well Customs certainly wouldn't have been involved if you didn't!  :-)

I meant other than Sweden

{Quote hidden}

If I take a chance and just sent it airmail or even global priority, I have
to increase the price to compensate for the loss and fraud. One way or the
other, it costs more than just the postage. Just to be clear, in the USA,
priority mail is tracked end to end. Global Priority is tracked until it
hits the other country, then it is up to each country to decide how or if
they will track it. The USPS doesn't interface to their tracking even when
they have it online. There may be a better way, but I don't know what it is.
With registered mail, since it is always official and they always collect
the tax they should, they pretty much have to deliver it.

{Quote hidden}

I should stick to my guns. Honestly, since PayPal doesn't support
international shipping the way they support supping inside the USA... Well,
it just isn't worth my time to be honest, unless I get paid at least a few
dollars. With PayPal, shipping inside the USA is a few clicks and a label
prints that I slap on the (free) box and set it out on the way to work. It
keeps track of the tracking number, emails tracking to the customer
automatically, pays for the postage out of the account, does the packing
slip, updates the order status... It's all just automatic. Nothing to
forget.

Put PayPal won't do any of it for international shipping. So you have to:

- Buy the postage (trip to the post office or another account with an online
postage outfit like stamps.com)
- Buy a box
- Manually fill out the customs form
- Print (copy, paste, format, print) or hand write the address on the box
- Add the shipping info to the PayPal order information

And that assumes you are not tracking or insuring the box in any way. Asking
for fraud in other words. To do it right, you also have to:

- Go to the post office and get the tracking or insurance number
- Manually type that tracking number into the PayPal order information.
Don't make a typing error!

> I now have another strategy though: having met on the
> Internet I now have a girlfriend who lives in New York, so in
> future I'll ask you to send it there, and she can send it on
> (or either of us can carry it next time we cross the pond).

Ask her if she is interested in re-shipping orders to other people for me.
<GRIN>

---
James.



2005\03\22@164455 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> > Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via
> that method,
> > a significant percentage of them have simply disappeared in customs.
>
> I've sent *hundreds* of packages/letter from Sweden to the
> US, aprox 500-600 during 2004 alone, probably over 1.000 total.
> And *only* using standard letter airmail, not a single
> registred package.
>
> Only one (1) "lost" package around Christmas 2003. That one
> was simply replaced with a new one...

Shipping INTO the USA isn't a problem, or at least that is what I'd like to
believe. Our postal employees take their frustration out on each other not
on the mail. <SAD GRIN> And shipping into Sweden may not be a problem
either, I haven't had any orders from there so I don't know. Other countries
ARE a problem. Knowing which is a trick, and even the "good" ones seem to
have problems some times.


2005\03\22@165231 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Actually, I don't usually do
> the signature proof anymore (only about half ever made it
> back)

I am otherwise very pleased with world-wide postal services, but I too
stopped using signature proof (return signature?). The return rate is
indeed about 50%, and that is consistent with: when I get a package with
signature required in roughly half the cases the postman just hands it
over (without requiring the signature).

My loss rate is roughly 1 in 200. But the excessive delay rate is
somethat higher, the record is 2 month for a package within my country.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\03\23@055204 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via that
>> method, a
>> significant percentage of them have simply disappeared in customs.

Just got a priority mail parcel from Digikey today. 10 days ish from
USA to NZ and far far cheaper than alternatives.



       RM

2005\03\23@131514 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face

> >> Priority mail is great, BUT: When I have sent things via
> that method,
> >> a significant percentage of them have simply disappeared
> in customs.
>
> Just got a priority mail parcel from Digikey today. 10 days
> ish from USA to NZ and far far cheaper than alternatives.

And I'm sure there are millions of other examples of Global Priority Mail
working just fine. But my experience was that it doesn't always work.
Sometimes it gets lost, and when it does, the USPS isn't able to help /
insure / offer proof of the delivery. With Registered mail, they pop to /
pay off / and will happily show that it was turned over to customs and even
get you the signature of the customs agent who signed for it. They take
registered mail REALLY seriously.

---
James.



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