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'[EE]: IR detectors - low current?'
2003\06\27@164541 by ?q?Debbie=20Hynes?=

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PICers,
I find myself in need of a smallish IR detector, ie. not an imager. The one I'm
using now is a shop-standard intruder alarm with Moire lens. It pulls around 15
mA and I think that's a bit too much from a battery supply. I guess what's
needed is something that pulls a quiescent current <1mA .

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thankz if can advise - Debbie :)

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2003\06\27@165734 by Bob Axtell

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Debbie, I think DIY electronics sells a smallish PIR kit that draws about
1Ma from 5v. The PIR sensor doesn't draw anything, but the analog signal
processor draws about a mA.

--Bob

At 06:45 AM 6/28/2003 +1000, you wrote:
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2003\06\28@051908 by Peter L. Peres

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> 1Ma from 5v. The PIR sensor doesn't draw anything, but the analog signal
> processor draws about a mA.

Why would the PIR not draw anything ? It normally has a 10k load resistor
and produces ~2V across it in quiescent conditions (the PIR has a FET in
source follower configuration inside). That's 200uA to start with. Maybe
there is a different kind of PIR ?

Peter

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2003\06\28@051918 by Peter L. Peres

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You can try to modify the detector you have. Most of the current likely
goes into a LED or relay. The one I played with draws only 5mA or so and
it is very old. It uses 1xLM358 + 1xLM339. By replacing the chips with
lower power ones you can reduce the power requirements.

Peter

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2003\06\28@063140 by Timothy Box

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Try this little beauty

http://www.mew-europe.com/ac/download/datasheet/sensor/napion_en.pdf



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Sent: 27 June 2003 21:57
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Subject: Re: [EE]: IR detectors - low current?


Debbie, I think DIY electronics sells a smallish PIR kit that draws about
1Ma from 5v. The PIR sensor doesn't draw anything, but the analog signal
processor draws about a mA.

--Bob

At 06:45 AM 6/28/2003 +1000, you wrote:
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2003\06\28@130142 by Bob Axtell

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Odd. The RE200B uses a 47K pullup.

--Boib

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2003\06\28@154347 by ?q?Debbie=20Hynes?=

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that's a good idea. maybe extract the sensor that's already in there & just use
that?
Debbie :)

--- "Peter L. Peres" <plpspamKILLspamACTCOM.CO.IL> wrote: > You can try to modify the
detector you have. Most of the current likely
> goes into a LED or relay. The one I played with draws only 5mA or so and
> it is very old. It uses 1xLM358 + 1xLM339. By replacing the chips with
> lower power ones you can reduce the power requirements.
>
> Peter


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2003\06\29@150423 by Peter L. Peres

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> hat's a good idea. maybe extract the sensor that's already in there &
> just use that?

If your quary is a red hot piece of metal a few inches away maybe. Else
not. The output is in milivolts or less. How big are your animals, and how
furry ? If very furry and small then PIR may not work at all. I've once
seen IR pictures of seals and polar bears and all you can see is the
breath around the head (the seals emit a little more then polar bears but
when wet they can appear *colder* than the dry ice they are sitting on).

Peter

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2003\06\29@155846 by gtyler

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It works for cats, dogs, even chickens. I use a radio PIR outside on the
farm I say on. In S.Africa there are up to 1400 farmers murded a year,  so
security is very necessary. Animals are a big problem, generate false
alarms.

{Original Message removed}

2003\06\29@173810 by ?q?Debbie=20Hynes?=

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Yeah, it would need amplification, that's 4 sure. I've noticed birds don't seem
to emit much IR especialy from sideways where the wing blocks the body. the
critters i'm after would come in a range of sizes, from say rabbit size up to
dog size. they're mostly nocturnal so the SNR wrt bnackground IR is quite high.
in winter anyway. :|
Debbie :)
PS: Err - u must be running out of farmers in SA at that rate??

--- gtyler <EraseMEgtylerspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTDRUMMOND.ORG.ZA> wrote: > It works for cats, dogs, even
chickens. I use a radio PIR outside on the
> farm I say on. In S.Africa there are up to 1400 farmers murded a year,  so
> security is very necessary. Animals are a big problem, generate false
> alarms.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2003\06\29@183320 by Jinx

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> Yeah, it would need amplification, that's 4 sure. I've noticed birds
> don't seem to emit much IR ..................SNR wrt background IR is
> quite high in winter

Have you Googled for something like +murata +PIR ?

A project of a couple of years ago involved using Murata piezo
sensors to detect people in a room 10m away with a battery-
operated micro. The sensors on their own are pretty limited to
a lot of movement under metre but adding a Fresnel lens makes
a huge difference. Amplification is TLC271s at low frequency/
low current setting. As the unit had a timeout period after detection
the V+ for the amps was supplied by a PIC pin. From memory the
PIR part of the circuit used around 20uA. The range that needs
boosting is at most a few Hz. I found that the simple circuit used
was fairly insensitive to air movements. Common security light
circuits I looked at were more complex and usually based around
a quad amp like an LM324. Their complexity helps to prevent
false triggering, but in our app that wasn't too much of an issue
so we just went with amplication. PIRs themselves are pretty good
filters anyway. The Fresnel lenses were got from a local alarm
supplier. As only a narrow horizontal band of detection was
needed it was found that using just a 15mm strip from the middle
of the (originally 50x50) lens was sufficient. Be aware that lenses
are available for particular applications - eg curtain, long range,
short range etc - and you may need to optimise. And not all plastics
are transparent to PIR so watch out for that. Some lenses found
weren't intended for PIR

I would expect that small furry animals don't emit much heat. Fur
is, after all, a very good insulator. Have you considered something
more sophisticated, eg a motion detector based around a camera ?
A webcam and an IR spotlight would do. By comparing frames it
should be quite easy (on paper) to detect a new object. Plus you
get a picture of it. The resolution of the comparison could possibly
be used as a filter to focus on a particular size of aminal. eg

http://home.earthlink.net/~apendragn/gbcam/

or Google for "artificial retina"

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2003\06\29@185757 by Jinx

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part 1 330 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

PS meant to include the PIR amp circuit. It has two PIRs so as
to cover (ISTR) about 160 degrees horizontally. The outputs
are ORed into b0 to wake the PIC


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part 2 4268 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 2 bytes
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2003\06\29@191259 by Bob Axtell

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Studying a TV image capture works. Barcodes can be extracted from PAL or
VGA images pretty easily once the software can determine their orientation.
The big problem with that is that image arrays draw a lot of current, and
they have to be on all the time.. Not workable for battery systems.

There's more to PIR (long wave, i.e. heat radiation) than meets the eye. In
an outdoor setting, for example, a very sensitive PIR detector can easily
pick up the steady radiation of the BIG BANG, and anything that interrupts
that radiation, even if cold, will be detected. That's not well know, but
is the reason persons and animals with heavy fur can be detected.

--Bob

At 10:31 AM 6/30/2003 +1200, you wrote:
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