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'[OT]: Remote controlled sub with video camera'
2000\08\23@113517 by Hans-Christian Prytz

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Hi,
I'm planning on building a small remote controlled (by cable probably)
submarine, and naturally I hope to control it with pic controllers ( I
haven't decided exactly which ones yet).
I don't expect many major problems with the controlsystem itself, but I am
a bit in deep water regarding the camera.
After looking at the archives of the list, it seems that I might be best
off going with either a VV6301 (or similar) or the M64282FP (the one in the
Gameboy camara).
I plan to send the data up to shore, probably sharing bandwith with the
control signals to the sub, maybe using a RS485 link, or something similar.
However I am a bit uncertain as to how these cameras behave, so I hav a few
qestions:

1. How fast can you get images from them? I need at least a semblance of
"full motion". I guess this would maybe come down to how fast the PIC can
handle the data.

2. This video stream (if I can call it that) will be used as a visual aid
in controlling the sub, so the quality of the image is important. Is there
anyone that has actually used these for something similar? If so, how well
suited to the task are these things?

3. Am I barking up the totally wrong tree here? Is it at all possible to do
this with the type of hardware mentioned? Or should I go with a seperate
video feed (which is much more expensive)?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, I'm fumbling a bit since this is
my first hardware project after working with software only for several years.
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2000\08\23@120842 by M. Adam Davis

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Why don't you use one pair for everything:

Modulate video and audio (ch-3/4 modulators are cheap) and then use matching
transformers on both ends.  (would the 75<-->300 ohm ones work for this?)

Put data on the line at 57,600 bps or so.

Put DC power down the line.

It isn't difficult to build the filters you'd use on both ends to get the
data/video/power out of the line.

Then you can use a cheap cmos or ccd camera for full motion, decent resolution
video, and a cheap monitor on the surface.

-Adam

Hans-Christian Prytz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\08\23@124604 by Andrew Kunz

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I suggest you visit http://www.rcboats.com and ask there.

Andy









Hans-Christian Prytz <hans-christianspamKILLspamPRYTZ.NET> on 08/23/2000 11:24:41 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>








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cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: [OT]: Remote controlled sub with video camera








Hi,
I'm planning on building a small remote controlled (by cable probably)
submarine, and naturally I hope to control it with pic controllers ( I
haven't decided exactly which ones yet).
I don't expect many major problems with the controlsystem itself, but I am
a bit in deep water regarding the camera.
After looking at the archives of the list, it seems that I might be best
off going with either a VV6301 (or similar) or the M64282FP (the one in the
Gameboy camara).
I plan to send the data up to shore, probably sharing bandwith with the
control signals to the sub, maybe using a RS485 link, or something similar.
However I am a bit uncertain as to how these cameras behave, so I hav a few
qestions:

1. How fast can you get images from them? I need at least a semblance of
"full motion". I guess this would maybe come down to how fast the PIC can
handle the data.

2. This video stream (if I can call it that) will be used as a visual aid
in controlling the sub, so the quality of the image is important. Is there
anyone that has actually used these for something similar? If so, how well
suited to the task are these things?

3. Am I barking up the totally wrong tree here? Is it at all possible to do
this with the type of hardware mentioned? Or should I go with a seperate
video feed (which is much more expensive)?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, I'm fumbling a bit since this is
my first hardware project after working with software only for several years.
--
Hans-Christian Prytz
hans-christianspamspam_OUTprytz.net

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2000\08\23@131044 by Alan B. Pearce

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>After looking at the archives of the list, it seems that I might be best
>off going with either a VV6301 (or similar) or the M64282FP (the one in the
>Gameboy camara).

Refer to the recent discussion on the CoolCam. It uses chips from the VV6xxx
family, and they can drive Video for Windows. You will need to look at this link
www.vvl.co.uk/products/co-processors/680/680.htm
to get the info on the chipset.

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2000\08\23@201515 by John Mullan

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I would probably use one of the cheap CCD modules and send the composite
signal up a coax.  You can get some nice cable that has CAT5 and RG6 in the
same jacket.

John Mullan


{Original Message removed}

2000\08\23@221748 by McMeikan, Andrew

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Hi hope you have some luck with your sub, there is some good info and links
at http://www.subcommittee.com that might help you.

I am also building a sub (a manned one, not model) so if anyone has some
links to sonar, water speed/depth PIC projects or similar please let me know
as well.

       cya,    Andrew...

> {Original Message removed}

2000\08\24@073946 by Andrew Kunz

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>I am also building a sub (a manned one, not model) so if anyone has some
>links to sonar, water speed/depth PIC projects or similar please let me know
>as well.

Fish finders work well upside-down.  The water surface is an excellent
reflector.  You get a good idea of depth that way, using sonar.  They also work
horizontally to detect obstacles.

The pressure sensor I used in the SubTech ADC will go below the 48" limit we set
in the model version.  You can also get other members of the same family with
more depth capability.

Those same pressure sensors will work for forward motion - but you need a really
sensitive one!

Andy

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2000\08\24@083442 by mike

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On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:10:44 +0800, you wrote:

>Hi hope you have some luck with your sub, there is some good info and links
>at http://www.subcommittee.com that might help you.
>
>I am also building a sub (a manned one, not model) so if anyone has some
>links to sonar, water speed/depth PIC projects or similar please let me know
>as well.
>
>        cya,    Andrew...
>
>> {Original Message removed}

2000\08\24@100611 by Hans-Christian Prytz

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At 20:05 23.08.2000 -0400, you wrote:
>I would probably use one of the cheap CCD modules and send the composite
>signal up a coax.  You can get some nice cable that has CAT5 and RG6 in the
>same jacket.

I thought about this as well, but I keep running into some problems. Some
of these are probably just showing that I don't really know much about
video, and video transmissions :-(

First of all, the cameras I have seen are fairly expensive.

Secondly, how far can these signals travel without unacceptable signal
degredation? I need
about 110-120 meters ( I want the sub to be able to operate down to 40 m,
with a range of about 100m from the boat)

Thirdly, using a camara such as this means I have to have a seperate
monitor for the videoimage (or use some kind of "tv" capture card for a
pc). But what I really want is to have the image on the computer screen
together with the controls.

Btw. does anyone know how many frames pr. second you manage to get out of
the combination of a CoolCam/VV6xxx and one of the pic controllers?

Thanks

Hans-Christian

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2000\08\24@110603 by mike

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On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:06:05 +0200, you wrote:

>At 20:05 23.08.2000 -0400, you wrote:
>>I would probably use one of the cheap CCD modules and send the composite
>>signal up a coax.  You can get some nice cable that has CAT5 and RG6 in the
>>same jacket.
>
>I thought about this as well, but I keep running into some problems. Some
>of these are probably just showing that I don't really know much about
>video, and video transmissions :-(
>
>First of all, the cameras I have seen are fairly expensive.
Look at the cheap  PCB-type camera modules, not the big boxes with
lenses screwed on the front.  Mono PCB cameras start around UKP30-40 (US$50-65), and can be as small
as 15x15x20mm including lens. Colour ones are only slightly more.
>Secondly, how far can these signals travel without unacceptable signal
>degredation? I need
>about 110-120 meters ( I want the sub to be able to operate down to 40 m,
>with a range of about 100m from the boat)
100M should be quite feasable with a proper 75 ohm driver and
correctly terminated good quality cable. Somewhere in the Maxim
databook I saw an apnote on sending video down a twisted-pair - can't
remember the length though. Another possibility could be to use a UHF
modulator  - might be easier to combine power and baseband signalling
onto UHF than raw composite - you may need lower capacitance cable
though.  UHF would also allow the use of multiple cameras on one cable.

>Thirdly, using a camara such as this means I have to have a seperate
>monitor for the videoimage (or use some kind of "tv" capture card for a
>pc). But what I really want is to have the image on the computer screen
>together with the controls.
TV capture cards and video-to-USB devices are not exactly expensive...
>Btw. does anyone know how many frames pr. second you manage to get
out of
>the combination of a CoolCam/VV6xxx and one of the pic controllers?
Analogue video would give you 50/60fps...

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2000\08\25@041116 by Jarmo Latvala

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>
>
> Secondly, how far can these signals travel without unacceptable signal
> degredation? I need
> about 110-120 meters ( I want the sub to be able to operate down to 40 m,
> with a range of about 100m from the boat)

Is that length of cable anykind of problem? I mean its very heavy and could sink
your sub. Or that cable could stuck somewhere (roots, trash etc..)

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2000\08\25@052122 by Hans-Christian Prytz

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At 11:12 25.08.2000 +0300, Jarmo Latvala wrote:
> >
> >
> > Secondly, how far can these signals travel without unacceptable signal
> > degredation? I need
> > about 110-120 meters ( I want the sub to be able to operate down to 40 m,
> > with a range of about 100m from the boat)
>
>Is that length of cable anykind of problem? I mean its very heavy and
>could sink
>your sub. Or that cable could stuck somewhere (roots, trash etc..)

Yes, I would imagine it is quite heavy, but a few bouancy "devices" (don't
know the correct English word) at regular intervals should help solve that
problem.

Also, it would be on a spool in the boat/on land, so ony what is needed
would be released.

My biggest problem at the moment is actually making the hull, and deciding
how to do the video bit.


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