Post by thread:[OT] Adapters [Was: MAXIM small orders system]

Well, I drew out one adapter design, to see where we were in the ballpark. I designed a simple 28-pin SOIC to DIP adapter board. Basically, it is a board with regular plated-through holes for a 28-pin DIP (0.32" drill), with SMD pads for a SOIC-28 inside the outline for the DIP-28. I routed traces on a 0.05" grid on two sides, and managed to do it with 10 vias. (I went through a little bit of hell with Eagle trying to get the pad layout for the SOIC chip commensurate with that for the DIP so that it would pass the DRC or even route; their part design was a little flakey -- it was somewhat assymetetrical. But I straigtened it out, and I'll report it to Cadsoft). There is a PostScript printout of it in 2x scale at ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.ps. (Ghostview seems to do fine with it and will show it in color. If you print it in B&W, the top and bottom traces won't be distinguishable, but if you pay attention to the vias you can figure it out. When I get the Eagle board file packaged up I'll put that on my Adapter page.) My idea is that you could simply solder some Mil-Max pins into the DIP holes; e.g. Digi-key #ED5055-ND (at $6.30 per hundred) might be made to work, although there might be a better choice; suggestions are welcome. Also, after plating I'm not sure the DIP holes in my design are a good size; they should be carefully matched to the choice of pin. This board works out to 1.4"x0.7". I plugged some guesses as to parameters into the Advanced Circuits quote engine, and came up with the following for a production run of 1000 with a 4-week turn: 62 cents each. Now, for an adapter like this, there might be better/cheaper choices for materials... all y'all with more experience making boards are welcome to make suggestions. But the bottom line seems to be that at least this design could be made, as a kit with pins that need to be soldered in by hand, for a little less than a dollar. Clearly, at a minimum, there would have to be a little markup for cost recovery in handling and such, so maybe the total price would have to be more in the range of $2.50 to $5.00 for sales on a non-profit basis; in keeping with Paul's comments below, ten of them might cost $25. This is still far less than one pays for commercial adapters. Thoughts? Comments? --Bob Quote Type: Production Quantity: 1000 Unit Price: $0.62 Board Subtotal (Qty * unit price): $620.00 NRE Tooling: $125.00 Lead Time: 15-day Material type: FR4 Material thickness: 0.062" Layer count: 2 First dimension: 1.4" Second dimension: 0.7" Finish Plating: SMOBC Copper weight: 1 oz Trace width/space: 0.008" Smallest hole size: 0.024" Gold Fingers None Qty SMD pads - top: 28 Qty SMD pads - bottom: 0 SMD - pitch: 0.05 Solder mask sides: 2 Solder Mask type: LPI Legend silkscreen: 0 CNC route points: 4 Tab Route? No Scoring? No On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:37:28AM +1000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote: {Quote hidden}> Tom Handley wrote: > > > Wagner, if we could do adapters for $1 in single qty, I would sell my > > house to raise startup capital ;-) > > Whilst understanding that Tom is pooh-pooing the practicality of > getting down to $1 a board, it seems to me that if it were to be > practical at all, there is *no way* you would *ever* offer them as > "single qty". > > I note the local electronics shop now sells resistors only in packs > of five, or twos for the large ones (as Tandy = Radio Shack always did). > This seems to me the only sensible approach. I can't think of a time > when I ever needed to buy one resistor; for whatever reason I wanted the > one, it would always have been sensible to have the remainder in stock > for next time - to avoid a trip where possible. > > If you were making these adapter boards (and I think they should be > made), you would *never* want to ship less than ten to anyone. At that > rate, they should still be cheap to do. > -- > Cheers, > Paul B. -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem spam_OUTbobTakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was shocked to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs. I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else? I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread. thanx Op ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

To view the last few weeks' discussion, browse to www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/1999/Aug/index.html This appears to be happening with sample orders in particular, but more generally DIP parts are getting harder and harder to get. --Bob On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:01:59PM -0700, Op wrote: {Quote hidden}> I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic > components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for > parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I > proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was shocked > to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife > stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played > around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs. > I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else? > I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread. > > thanx > Op -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem .....bobKILLspam@spam@drzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

part 0 1803 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; name=Nino.Benci.vcf; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit) You will have to check with MAXIM on DIP versions of your components... Op wrote: {Quote hidden}> > I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic > components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for > parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I > proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was shocked > to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife > stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played > around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs. > I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else? > I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread. > > thanx > Op Nino. -- ****************************************************** * Antonio (Nino) Benci * * Professional Officer / Electronic Services Manager * * Monash University - Dept of Physics * * Wellington Rd, Clayton. 3168 * * Victoria, Australia. * * TEL - 61 3 9905 3649, FAX - 61 3 9905 3637 * * Mobile - 0414 764 763 (private and ah only) * * EMAIL - nino.benciKILLspamsci.monash.edu.au (work) * * - .....fleatechKILLspam.....excite.com (private) * * WWW - http://www.physics.monash.edu.au/ * ****************************************************** Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=Nino.Benci.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-description: Card for Antonio L Benci Content-disposition: attachment; filename=Nino.Benci.vcf Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Attachment converted: wonderland:Nino.Benci.vcf (TEXT/CSOm) (0000BA44)

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 08:23:16PM -0400, Bob Drzyzgula wrote: > Well, I drew out one adapter design, to see where we were > in the ballpark. I designed a simple 28-pin SOIC to DIP OK, so thinking it through again, trying to account for more costs... Suppose that one figured that it would be possible to sell 5000 28-pin SOIC-to-DIP adapters, in 500 sales of ten per bag. Assume additionally that: * It will take two prototype runs of 30 units each to get it right, at a cost of $228 per run on a three-day turn, or $456. * A single production order for 5000 units would be made at a cost of $1600 plus $125 NRE. (this is at $0.32 each, the difference from the previous quote being in (a) the quantity and (b) Wet solder mask instead of LPI.) * Each board would be supplied with 30 pins (two to mess up), so 150,000 pins would need to be purchased. Using Digi-key's 5000-unit price for the pins I quoted before (ED5055-ND), this would cost $4725.0. At these volumes, the unit price may be significantly different. * Someone would of course have to bag these things, with a board and 30 pins. I don't know how much such services run (perhaps Don McKenzie knows), but I'll throw in a WAG of $0.25 per bag, or $1250 total. Adding this up, 5000 boards, each bagged with 30 pins, might have an aggregate cost of around $8156, or $1.63 per kit, unless I've made some horrendous arithmetic mistake. If you leave the pins as an exercise for the customer, and forgo the bagging cost, the core cost for the board would be around $0.36 each. If one buys in batches of 1000, this cost per board rises to $0.70 plus the amortized cost of the prototypes. Don't know what to make of this other than that Wagner's guess that one could do this for around a $1 per board may not be all that far off, as long as one can find the cash to do a run of at least 1000 or so, and can wait for a long turnaround in production. Now, there's a QFP-80 package (Hitachi H8S/2134: square, 0.65mm pitch) I'd like to adapt into a PGA for prototyping. I'll probably try to design a board to do that, but then it gets to be a real pain as far as I can tell, because one then has to mix hard metric and inches on the same board; I've not found this to be the easiest thing to do in Eagle. Anyone done much of this? --Bob -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem EraseMEbobspam_OUTTakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 08:23:16PM -0400, Bob Drzyzgula wrote: > > There is a PostScript printout of it in 2x scale at > ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.ps. > (Ghostview seems to do fine with it and will show it in > color. First, Ken Pergola was so kind as to convert my PostScript file into a pdf (someday I really have to cough up the $30 for the Acrobat writer...). It's available at ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.pdf Also, it was suggested to me that it should be possible to route such an adapter one-sided. I don't see any way to do this without making the board bigger and/or the DIP width non-standard, or making the traces a lot thinner and the grid maybe down to 10 mils or so (it's routed on a 50-mil grid right now; with a 25-mil grid I was able to get rid of a few vias but not all). Thoughts from the routing geniuses out there? --Bob -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem bobspam_OUTdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

Fredric White wrote: > > Mostly as an excuse to try out Geocities (rhymes with atrocities), I > uploaded a picture of an adapter I made recently, in case anyone is > interested: > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/1314/ The idea is to use those component carriers, or cable headers instead the expensive pins. So your adapter board will have holes to receive the headers, and you will transform your soic unit into a real dip one. The headers pin diameter is equivalent to DIP chips (0.019" - 0.49mm), so it fits easily in protoboards and drilled pcb's with 0.025" or bigger holes. Take a look at this JDR example... cost $0.79 for a 14 pin dip, single quantities. www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=gr-icc08 while Digikey charges $1.56 for a similar header at: http://WWW.DIGIKEY.COM/CC/124.PDF Digikey also sells covers for those headers, a 14 pin dip cover cost $0.34. You can "encapsulate" and protect your circuit... If you have a space problem, the adapter board could be mounted vertically in the middle of the header adapter, with small solid wires connecting the header pins to the adapter board.

The EXACT same thing happened to me when I ordered some accelerometers(sp).. And my jaw dropped too, infact. I must of gone back to the web site a couple times before I realised that the only package they made the device in, was the one I received. >I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic >components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for >parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I >proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was shocked >to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife >stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played >around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs. >I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else? >I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread. > >thanx >Op > I spent 1/2 an evening soldering wire wrap to the chip and managed to get it working. ($8 radio shack soldering iron) (note to self: buy something fancier) I found the adapters to make it dip from digikey.. they were aprox $10usd... QUITE expensive, but more cost effective if I consider my time to be worth anything... I've briefly read the thread about large quantities of these adapters.. And would probably pick up a hundred of them (with various pin configurations) if they were available for $1 or ($0.32 as i think I saw) Leslie Bester Chief Technical Officer Gallmark Corporation 500-280 Smith St. Winnipeg, MB. R3C 1K2 Contact Specifications: 204-944-1119 (voice office) 204-949-0768 (fax office) 204-933-5164 (pager) 204-229-1082 (cellular) @spam@lesKILLspamgallmark.mb.ca (email) KILLspampagerKILLspamgallmark.mb.ca (email pager) -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 dpu(--) s: a- C+++(++++) UL++(++++) P++(+++>) L+++(++++>) E- w++ O M- V PS+ PE Y-- PGP- t@ 5@ X+(++) R(-) tv- b+(++) DI+++ D+ G e h(*) r y+ z ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Like this: ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28-2.jpg ? Great idea. The board is just about the same surface area, so there shouldn't be any cost difference. The only problem I see is that the pin heads under the SOIC will have to be no thicker than the elevation of the SOIC underbelly from the PCB, which would seriously limit the choice of pins. Maybe you meant to put the SOIC all the way outside the DIP outline? --Bob (I suddenly realized I could use the CAM processor to generate a TIFF file rather than printing to PostScript, and I then converted to jpg with xv on my Linux machine. It's got some aliasing problems, but at least it will pop up inline on a browser). --Bob On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 08:19:58AM +1000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote: > OK, noted the design simplifies if you "cheat" and use 0.7" spacing. > What happens to the design if you assume a 0.3" "Skinny Dip" pinout. > > Yes, I know it overhangs, but it certainly fits a breadboard (indeed, > it allows you more "holes" to use). > > -- > Cheers, > Paul B. -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem RemoveMEbobTakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================