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'[OT] Adapters [Was: MAXIM small orders system]'
1999\08\22@202418 by Bob Drzyzgula

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Well, I drew out one adapter design, to see where we were
in the ballpark.  I designed a simple 28-pin SOIC to DIP
adapter board. Basically, it is a board with regular
plated-through holes for a 28-pin DIP (0.32" drill),
with SMD pads for a SOIC-28 inside the outline for the
DIP-28. I routed traces on a 0.05" grid on two sides, and
managed to do it with 10 vias. (I went through a little
bit of hell with Eagle trying to get the pad layout for
the SOIC chip commensurate with that for the DIP so that
it would pass the DRC or even route; their part design was
a little flakey -- it was somewhat assymetetrical. But I
straigtened it out, and I'll report it to Cadsoft).

There is a PostScript printout of it in 2x scale at
ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.ps.
(Ghostview seems to do fine with it and will show it in
color. If you print it in B&W, the top and bottom traces
won't be distinguishable, but if you pay attention to the
vias you can figure it out. When I get the Eagle board
file packaged up I'll put that on my Adapter page.)

My idea is that you could simply solder some Mil-Max
pins into the DIP holes; e.g. Digi-key #ED5055-ND (at
$6.30 per hundred) might be made to work, although there
might be a better choice; suggestions are welcome.  Also,
after plating I'm not sure the DIP holes in my design
are a good size; they should be carefully matched to
the choice of pin.

This board works out to 1.4"x0.7". I plugged some guesses
as to parameters into the Advanced Circuits quote engine,
and came up with the following for a production run
of 1000 with a 4-week turn: 62 cents each. Now, for an
adapter like this, there might be better/cheaper choices
for materials... all y'all with more experience making
boards are welcome to make suggestions.

But the bottom line seems to be that at least this design
could be made, as a kit with pins that need to be soldered
in by hand, for a little less than a dollar. Clearly,
at a minimum, there would have to be a little markup for
cost recovery in handling and such, so maybe the total
price would have to be more in the range of $2.50 to $5.00
for sales on a non-profit basis; in keeping with Paul's
comments below, ten of them might cost $25. This is still
far less than one pays for commercial adapters.

Thoughts? Comments?

--Bob

Quote Type: Production
Quantity: 1000
Unit Price: $0.62
Board Subtotal (Qty * unit price): $620.00
NRE Tooling: $125.00
Lead Time: 15-day
Material type: FR4
Material thickness: 0.062"
Layer count: 2
First dimension: 1.4"
Second dimension: 0.7"
Finish Plating: SMOBC
Copper weight: 1 oz
Trace width/space: 0.008"
Smallest hole size: 0.024"
Gold Fingers None
Qty SMD pads - top: 28
Qty SMD pads - bottom: 0
SMD - pitch: 0.05
Solder mask sides: 2
Solder Mask type: LPI
Legend silkscreen: 0
CNC route points: 4
Tab Route?  No
Scoring?  No

On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 07:37:28AM +1000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\08\22@211720 by Op

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I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic
components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for
parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I
proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was shocked
to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife
stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played
around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs.
I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else?
I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread.

thanx
Op

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1999\08\22@214708 by Bob Drzyzgula

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To view the last few weeks' discussion, browse to
www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/1999/Aug/index.html
This appears to be happening with sample orders in particular,
but more generally DIP parts are getting harder and harder
to get.

--Bob

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:01:59PM -0700, Op wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\08\22@215118 by Antonio L Benci

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You will have to check with MAXIM on DIP versions of your components...

Op wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Nino.
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1999\08\22@215121 by l.allen

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Its a bit crude but...

To make a one off development type board I will sometimes, when faced
with nothing but an SOIC, take a VERO microboard and cut the copper
long ways down one of the 3 hole pads with a sharp knife such as a
"Stanley Knife". The spacing is now SOIC.
A dash of solder paste, a quick run over with a hot air solder
pencil.... problem solved.
Alas TSSOP etc is seriously out of reach with this method.. its a pcb
or nothing.

_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand
_____________________________

1999\08\22@224553 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 08:23:16PM -0400, Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
> Well, I drew out one adapter design, to see where we were
> in the ballpark.  I designed a simple 28-pin SOIC to DIP

OK, so thinking it through again, trying to
account for more costs...


Suppose that one figured that it would be possible to
sell 5000 28-pin SOIC-to-DIP adapters, in 500 sales
of ten per bag. Assume additionally that:

* It will take two prototype runs of 30 units each
to get it right, at a cost of $228 per run on a
three-day turn, or $456.

* A single production order for 5000 units would be
made at a cost of $1600 plus $125 NRE. (this is at
$0.32 each, the difference from the previous quote
being in (a) the quantity and (b) Wet solder mask
instead of LPI.)

* Each board would be supplied with 30 pins (two
to mess up), so 150,000 pins would need to be
purchased. Using Digi-key's 5000-unit price for
the pins I quoted before (ED5055-ND), this would
cost $4725.0. At these volumes, the unit price
may be significantly different.

* Someone would of course have to bag these things,
with a board and 30 pins. I don't know how much such
services run (perhaps Don McKenzie knows), but
I'll throw in a WAG of $0.25 per bag, or $1250
total.

Adding this up, 5000 boards, each bagged with 30
pins, might have an aggregate cost of around $8156,
or $1.63 per kit, unless I've made some horrendous
arithmetic mistake. If you leave the pins as an
exercise for the customer, and forgo the bagging
cost, the core cost for the board would be around
$0.36 each. If one buys in batches of 1000, this
cost per board rises to $0.70 plus the amortized
cost of the prototypes.

Don't know what to make of this other than that
Wagner's guess that one could do this for around
a $1 per board may not be all that far off, as
long as one can find the cash to do a run of at
least 1000 or so, and can wait for a long
turnaround in production.

Now, there's a QFP-80 package (Hitachi H8S/2134:
square, 0.65mm pitch) I'd like to adapt into a
PGA for prototyping. I'll probably try to design
a board to do that, but then it gets to be a
real pain as far as I can tell, because one
then has to mix hard metric and inches on the
same board; I've not found this to be the easiest
thing to do in Eagle. Anyone done much of this?

--Bob

--
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1999\08\23@093521 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 08:23:16PM -0400, Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>
> There is a PostScript printout of it in 2x scale at
> ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.ps.
> (Ghostview seems to do fine with it and will show it in
> color.

First, Ken Pergola was so kind as to convert my PostScript
file into a pdf (someday I really have to cough up the $30
for the Acrobat writer...).  It's available at
ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28.pdf

Also, it was suggested to me that it should be possible
to route such an adapter one-sided. I don't see any way
to do this without making the board bigger and/or the DIP
width non-standard, or making the traces a lot thinner
and the grid maybe down to 10 mils or so (it's routed
on a 50-mil grid right now; with a 25-mil grid I was
able to get rid of a few vias but not all). Thoughts
from the routing geniuses out there?

--Bob

--
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bobspamspam_OUTdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
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1999\08\23@111628 by Fredric White

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Mostly as an excuse to try out Geocities (rhymes with atrocities), I
uploaded a picture of an adapter I made recently, in case anyone is
interested:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/1314/

1999\08\23@122301 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Fredric White wrote:
>
> Mostly as an excuse to try out Geocities (rhymes with atrocities), I
> uploaded a picture of an adapter I made recently, in case anyone is
> interested:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/1314/

The idea is to use those component carriers, or cable headers instead
the expensive pins. So your adapter board will have holes to receive the
headers, and you will transform your soic unit into a real dip one.  The
headers pin diameter is equivalent to DIP chips (0.019" - 0.49mm), so it
fits easily in protoboards and drilled pcb's with 0.025" or bigger
holes.

Take a look at this JDR example... cost $0.79 for a 14 pin dip, single
quantities.
www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=gr-icc08
while Digikey charges $1.56 for a similar header at:
http://WWW.DIGIKEY.COM/CC/124.PDF
Digikey also sells covers for those headers, a 14 pin dip cover cost
$0.34.  You can "encapsulate" and protect your circuit...

If you have a space problem, the adapter board could be mounted
vertically in the middle of the header adapter, with small solid wires
connecting the header pins to the adapter board.

1999\08\23@122433 by Les

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The EXACT same thing happened to me when I ordered some accelerometers(sp)..
And my jaw dropped too,  infact.  I must of gone back to the web site a
couple times
before I realised that the only package they made the device in, was the one
I received.

>I just rejoined the list and saw a bit about making adapters for soic
>components, unbelievable timing for me. Yesterday I received my request for
>parts from maxim and rushed into my office to happily work on my project. I
>proudly showed my wife the cool containers that they came in and was
shocked
>to see soic in stead of dip. My jaw must have hit the floor because my wife
>stared at me and said "they aren't the right ones". So last night I played
>around with some ideas for adapters and looked thru my catalogs.
>I know I didn't order the wrong parts, has this happened to anyone else?
>I just joined yesterday so missed the beginning of the maxim thread.
>
>thanx
>Op
>

I spent 1/2 an evening soldering wire wrap to the chip and managed to get it
working. ($8 radio shack soldering iron) (note to self: buy something
fancier)

I found the adapters to make it dip from digikey..  they were aprox
$10usd...  QUITE expensive, but more cost effective if I consider my time to
be worth anything...

I've briefly read the thread about large quantities of these adapters..  And
would probably pick up a hundred of them (with various pin configurations)
if they were available for $1 or ($0.32 as i think I saw)


Leslie Bester
Chief Technical Officer
Gallmark Corporation
500-280 Smith St.
Winnipeg, MB.   R3C 1K2

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1999\08\23@182156 by paulb

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OK, noted the design simplifies if you "cheat" and use 0.7" spacing.
What happens to the design if you assume a 0.3" "Skinny Dip" pinout.

 Yes, I know it overhangs, but it certainly fits a breadboard (indeed,
it allows you more "holes" to use).

--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\08\23@210046 by Bob Drzyzgula

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Like this: ftp://ftp.drzyzgula.org/pub/electronics/adap28-2.jpg ?
Great idea. The board is just about the same surface area, so
there shouldn't be any cost difference. The only problem I
see is that the pin heads under the SOIC will have to
be no thicker than the elevation of the SOIC underbelly
from the PCB, which would seriously limit the choice of
pins. Maybe you meant to put the SOIC all the way outside
the DIP outline?

--Bob

(I suddenly realized I could use the CAM processor to generate
a TIFF file rather than printing to PostScript, and I then
converted to jpg with xv on my Linux machine. It's got some
aliasing problems, but at least it will pop up inline
on a browser).

--Bob

On Tue, Aug 24, 1999 at 08:19:58AM +1000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
> OK, noted the design simplifies if you "cheat" and use 0.7" spacing.
> What happens to the design if you assume a 0.3" "Skinny Dip" pinout.
>
>   Yes, I know it overhangs, but it certainly fits a breadboard (indeed,
> it allows you more "holes" to use).
>
> --
>   Cheers,
>         Paul B.

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