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'[OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove'
2005\11\30@113248 by Mike Hord

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A luscious find from StumbleUpon.  Alcohol
powered portable camp stove, made from
three empty Heineken cans and a penny!

EXTREMELY well thought out.  Human
ingenuity at its finest.  Includes (if you can
find it) a list of possible fuels with benefits
and drawbacks of each.

http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html#

I fully intend to build one just as soon as I
can lay hands on some Heinekens.  Or
maybe just as soon as the effects of
emptying the cans wears off.

Mike H.

2005\11\30@121701 by John Ferrell

face picon face
Send unopened cans plus return postage and I will drain, dry and return them
at no charge for the service!
Local processing capacity has never been overwhelmed by volume!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US


{Original Message removed}


'[OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove'
2005\12\02@044300 by Joe McCauley
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Did you actually find the instructions? I couldn't find one on the site
unless I missed something obvious. (entirely possible).

Joe

> {Original Message removed}

2005\12\02@065303 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu]
>Sent: 02 December 2005 09:43
>To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove
>
>
>Did you actually find the instructions? I couldn't find one on
>the site unless I missed something obvious. (entirely possible).
>
>Joe

It took me a little while to work out (not good web design IMO).  If you click on the "Making the penny alcohol stove" link from the main page it brings up a pop-up window with a picture of the stove heating cooking pot. Under the picture are a row of circles.  Click the circles to bring up each of the construction pictures.

Regards

Mike

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2005\12\02@073442 by Joe McCauley

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Wow, thanks Mike, I would have given up on it. I don't badly need the stove
at the moment, but I guess it would not hurt to have the cans ready just in
case :)

Joe


> {Original Message removed}

2005\12\02@083111 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Wow, thanks Mike, I would have given up on it. I don't
>badly need the stove at the moment, but I guess it
>would not hurt to have the cans ready just in case :)

Of course you must get some materials in to prepare for the project ;)

Just like having some draws and boxes of electronic parts ready for some
possible future project ;)

2005\12\02@084638 by Mike Hord

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> I fully intend to build one just as soon as I
> can lay hands on some Heinekens.  Or
> maybe just as soon as the effects of
> emptying the cans wears off.

It works as advertised.  I used 100% ethanol-
about 10 ml gave me about 5 min run time,
including the prime and the copious amount
I spilled on the table next to the stove.

Super easy to assemble.  I might carry a
largish syringe with a long flat-tipped
needle to "inject" a little more fuel into the
stove for real-world usage, though.

Mike H.

2005\12\02@091103 by Mike Hord

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Everything you ever wanted to know about
campstoves, but were afraid to spend six
years collating the information about:

http://zenstoves.net/StoveChoices.htm

About halfway down find a chart detailing
fuel types and benefits- you'll have to dig
back to your chemistry class to really
understand and appreciate the amount of
info!

Mike H.

2005\12\02@102230 by Alex Harford

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On 12/2/05, Michael Rigby-Jones <Michael.Rigby-JonesspamKILLspambookham.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Did you actually find the instructions? I couldn't find one on
> >the site unless I missed something obvious. (entirely possible).
>
> It took me a little while to work out (not good web design IMO).  If you click on the "Making the penny alcohol stove" link from the main page it brings up a pop-up window with a picture of the stove heating cooking pot. Under the picture are a row of circles.  Click the circles to bring up each of the construction pictures.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who found the website hard to nagivate!
Especially when I'm using Firefox with tabs, and it's resizing my
whole browser.  How rude!

Once I realized that the lines where to cut were done on 3 separate
cans, it made more sense.  The image implies that you cut all of the
pieces from one can.

I thought the '3 cans' were just a joke about how many it takes.

But it is a very cool idea and I'm going to try it over the holidays.

Alex

2005\12\02@104013 by Danny Sauer

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Alex wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove' on Fri, Dec 02 at 09:24:
> Oh good, I'm not the only one who found the website hard to nagivate!
> Especially when I'm using Firefox with tabs, and it's resizing my
> whole browser.  How rude!

Go to Tools->options.  Click on "Web Features" and then click the
"Advanced" button next to "enable javascript".  Uncheck "move or
resize existing windows" (and hide/change status bar text as well as
raise/lower windows, IMHO)

--Danny

2005\12\02@142106 by Peter

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On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Joe McCauley wrote:

> Did you actually find the instructions? I couldn't find one on the site
> unless I missed something obvious. (entirely possible).

Click on "Making the Penny Alcohol Stove" in the page
http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html#. You have to have
Flash/Shockwave enabled.

Peter

2005\12\02@144751 by David Minkler

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Peter wrote:

>
> Click on "Making the Penny Alcohol Stove" in the page
> http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html#. You have to have
> Flash/Shockwave enabled.

As was stated, "poor web page design".  This wasn't a case where
Flash/Shockwave would add anything to the information content.  Fact is,
the design of the stove was an order of magnitude better than the design
of the web page.  The stove works.  The web page sort of kind of limps
along.  It's hard to get to the instructions.  The instructions that
appear are not very precise.  I can't (easily/economically) print the
instructions.

Dave


2005\12\02@193642 by William Chops Westfield

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On Dec 2, 2005, at 11:50 AM, David Minkler wrote:

>  The stove works.  The web page sort of kind of limps along.

See also www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/pepsistove.shtml
so you won't have to drink any beer :-)  The instructions look
a lot better, though it lacks a bit of the elegance that stems
from the unusually-shaped heineken cans, and I'm not sure that
it's the same "kind" of alcohol stove.

Googling for 'soda can alcohol stove' turns up a lot of results.
It seems to be the camping equivalent of blinking an LED :-)

BillW

2005\12\03@110928 by Mike Hord

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> Googling for 'soda can alcohol stove' turns up a lot of results.
> It seems to be the camping equivalent of blinking an LED :-)

Zenstoves.com seems to be the nexus of alcohol stoves.  Lots
of info on them, plus a pretty comprehensive comparison of
other stove technologies, and links to most stove sites.

Mike H.

2005\12\03@163139 by Peter

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On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, David Minkler wrote:

> Peter wrote:
>> Click on "Making the Penny Alcohol Stove" in the page
>> http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html#. You have to have Flash/Shockwave
>> enabled.
>
> As was stated, "poor web page design".  This wasn't a case where
> Flash/Shockwave would add anything to the information content.  Fact is, the
> design of the stove was an order of magnitude better than the design of the
> web page.  The stove works.  The web page sort of kind of limps along.  It's
> hard to get to the instructions.  The instructions that appear are not very
> precise.  I can't (easily/economically) print the instructions.

Get used to it. It's due to people ripping images and pages from other
sites. The difficulty in printing and copying is deliberate in most
cases. It's called AJAX ...

Peter

2005\12\05@124649 by David Minkler

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Peter wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I still don't "get it".  I understand people not wanting to have their
work stolen.  I understand incompetence.  I'm not suggesting that he's
incompetent, quite the opposite.  I think he got carried away with
making a really spiffy web site and forgot that the purpose of the
average viewer was to gather information adequate to reconstruct his
creation (the stove, not the web site).  If we look at other parts of
this guy's site, it's clear he knows the rudiments.  It's also clear
that he's (justifiably) proud of his stove design.  Clearly, he's not
trying to hide information on how to build his stove.

Instead of having simple links to clear instructions however, he has
this Flash/Shockwave nonsense that makes it difficult to get to his
instructions in the first place.  Then he has a nice photo of a can,
from the wrong angle, with lines to indistinct locations on the can and
few real dimensions in sight.  No exploded view anywhere.  The viewer
can't even easily take measurements from a print because he has made it
difficult to print.  Yes, I know how to circumvent all the nonsense but
much of his target audience probably doesn't.

I still think the stove design was at least an order of magnitude better
than the web design.  I think he should have taken advantage of his last
name and called it the "Jurey Rigged Stove".

Dave


2005\12\05@131550 by David Van Horn

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> I still think the stove design was at least an order of magnitude
better
> than the web design.  I think he should have taken advantage of his
last
> name and called it the "Jurey Rigged Stove".

I've never liked that term.  Jerry rigged came into use AFAICT around
WWI or WWII when we didn't want to think of the germans as nice folk.
My grandmother used a similar term that was directed at African
Americans.
So I just avoid it altogether.

Why not just say improvised?



2005\12\05@132240 by Danny Sauer

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David wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove' on Mon, Dec 05 at 11:51:
> difficult to print.  Yes, I know how to circumvent all the nonsense but
> much of his target audience probably doesn't.

Tha'ts the real kicker.  If an image can be displayed by a web
browser, I *can* download it / save it.  That's just the way it is.
So why do people continue on with these misguided attempts to make it
a pain in the butt to use their sites?  The only real protection they
have is Copyright, and that applies whether the site's a monstrosity
of non-standard crap, or the pinnicle of W3C compliance.

--Danny, most certainly *not* getting used to bad design :)

2005\12\05@133059 by Mike Hord

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> Why not just say improvised?

Less colorful.  I use an expletive originally used
to refer to female canines- doesn't insult anyone
but the dogs.

Mike H.

2005\12\05@133603 by David Minkler

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I thought the original was Jury Rigged.  Now, if only I could find that
etymology link Russell posted ...

Dave

David Van Horn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\12\05@133926 by Danny Sauer

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David wrote regarding 'RE: [OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove' on Mon, Dec 05 at 12:19:
> > I still think the stove design was at least an order of magnitude
> better
> > than the web design.  I think he should have taken advantage of his
> last
> > name and called it the "Jurey Rigged Stove".
>
> I've never liked that term.  Jerry rigged came into use AFAICT around
> WWI or WWII when we didn't want to think of the germans as nice folk.

That's a semi-common misconception.  The term "jury rigged" came from
the installation of a "jury mast" to replace a broken mast, therefore
"jury rigging" the ship.  The term appears in Robinson Crusoe, which
was written in 1719.

Germans were referred to as Jerries in WW I, however, jerry-built was
in use in the mid-1800s.  Historians disagree as to whether it referred
to a chamber pot, "Jelly", the tumbling walls of Jericho, or earlier
disdainful uses of "jerry" to refer to a disreputable person / cheap
pub) but they generally agree that it didn't have anything to do with
the Germans - since the term "jerry-built" was around for many years
before the German slang term.

"Jerry rig" is typically regarded as a mix of "jury rig" and "jerry
built".  Dictionaries are divided as to whether they include it (since
1959) or not (because it's a mis-form of the two proper terms).

The term appropriately used above, and which probably sounds like
"Jurey" is "Jury-rigged", anyway, so this is all somewhat irrelevant.
:)  Never mind that, should someone call me a "Jerry" due to my German
last name, I'd laugh at their lame attempt at a racial slur.  At least
"Kraut" conveys a bad smell - "Jerry" doesn't even sound like a
mean person. :)  It's right up there with "Cracker" in the list of
amusingly ineffective racial slurs, IMHO.

The African-derogatory term, however, is probably best to avoid in
general.  There's not much dispute on that one...

--Danny, basing this on several sources, all uncited ;)

2005\12\05@141058 by David Minkler

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Wow.  Just like I've always said, "If you stay awake, you learn
something new every day."  It's rarely what I expected to learn but,
that's okay.

Thanks,
Dave

Danny Sauer wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2005\12\05@141559 by David Van Horn

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I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood, and I
just avoid it because of that.



2005\12\05@142550 by Mike Hord

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> I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood, and I
> just avoid it because of that.

Agreed.  I usually avoid any slang terms whose etymology I don't know.
I'd hate to accidentally insult someone through my ignorance.

Mike H.

2005\12\05@144153 by D. Jay Newman

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> I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood, and I
> just avoid it because of that.

There's too many threads in this thread. Are you talking about "Jerry Rigged"
or Flash?

As pointed out earlier "Jerry Rigged" was a phrase before WWI which makes
the argument that it is somehow pejoritive pointless. I think that the
movement to remove everything that offends somebody somewhere is rather
strange.

A case in point: I was working for Penn State developing an
inter-university image sharing application geared towards agriculture.
While I was the lead programmer, I had to interface with the higher-ups
who were in charge.

At one meeted we got into content. It was decided that since Inda had
a high Hindu population that we couldn't have any pictures involving
the butchering of cows.

1. Butchering of cows, while not my thing, was important to the ag program.
2. At the time this was decided, no Indian university had signed onto
  this program.
3. There had been no actual complaints or input from any Hindu person or
  church.

In other words, it was preemptive political correctness.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
.....jayKILLspamspam.....sprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@144833 by D. Jay Newman

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> > I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood, and I
> > just avoid it because of that.
>
> Agreed.  I usually avoid any slang terms whose etymology I don't know.
> I'd hate to accidentally insult someone through my ignorance.
>
> Mike H.

So in other words you make the decision about what *might* be offensive
to *somebody*.

I prefer to use what language I use (generally polite) and if I offend
somebody through my ignorance of slang or jargon, I will mend my ways
if *they* complain. I refuse to judge what other people will find
offensive.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
EraseMEjayspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@150521 by David Van Horn

picon face
> > I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood,
and I
> > just avoid it because of that.
>
> There's too many threads in this thread. Are you talking about "Jerry
> Rigged" or Flash?

The former, flash is always evil :)

> As pointed out earlier "Jerry Rigged" was a phrase before WWI which
makes
> the argument that it is somehow pejoritive pointless. I think that the
> movement to remove everything that offends somebody somewhere is
rather
> strange.

Well, in MY mind, "jury rigged" is too close to the racially insulting
terms.  I'm not offended when someone uses the "jury rigged" form
though.



2005\12\05@152659 by Jinx

face picon face
> So in other words you make the decision about what *might* be
> offensive to *somebody*

But people do that all the time now in this PC-gone-mad world. You
could probably cite examples all day

"At one meeted we got into content. It was decided that since India
had a high Hindu population that we couldn't have any pictures
involving the butchering of cows"

Some British banks no longer give away "piggy banks" because
they might offend someone. My answer would be don't give one
to somebody who would be offended. Duh

Christmas is being watered-down in case it offends (I noted a
story in the news yesterday about a family "ordered" to remove
a nativity scene from their own garden). Christmas is re-named
in some places, decorations are frowned upon etc etc.

A proposal to use CE (Common Era) instead of AD, in case
the "Domini" offends Someone. Somewhere. Sometime

Yet it seems to me that those who might be offended scarcely
return the courtesy and continue their own practices that do
offend

As for etymology, look up "berk". Often used as a mild oath,
(along the lines of "clot" or "twit"). Apparently fine to use "berk"
in just about any social context, but don't you dare use its
source !!!

2005\12\05@153557 by Jinx

face picon face
> Well, in MY mind, "jury rigged" is too close to the racially insulting
> terms.  I'm not offended when someone uses the "jury rigged" form
> though.

But that's in your head Dave. It's like saying that you shouldn't use
the word "whittler" around people who lived in Poland in WW2

It's exactly the kind of misplaced emotionalism and misinterpretation
that started all this PC crap (no offense intended ;-))) )

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-jur1.htm

"These three terms have got thoroughly mixed up in people's minds,
to the extent that we may never be able to disentangle them again"

2005\12\05@155818 by David Van Horn

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> But that's in your head Dave. It's like saying that you shouldn't use
> the word "whittler" around people who lived in Poland in WW2

And it's in my mind that the damage would probably be.



2005\12\05@162556 by Jinx

face picon face
> > But that's in your head Dave. It's like saying that you shouldn't
> > use the word "whittler" around people who lived in Poland in
> > WW2
>
> And it's in my mind that the damage would probably be.

Hmmm, while there's no need to be intentionally insensitive or
provocative, I'd still use words that are etymologically correct

For example, I refuse to say "spokesperson" if the gender of
the person is known

I will never use "womyn" because some angry women don't
understand the "man" part of woman. Ditto "manual" labour

I will not stop using "balls up", because it has nothing to do
with what you might think it does. It is a perfectly legitimate
non-swearing phrase

Instead of me dumbing down my use of language, how about
others educate themselves and not be so reactionary ? Exactly
what I was saying before - it's always so one-way


2005\12\05@165039 by D. Jay Newman

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> > But that's in your head Dave. It's like saying that you shouldn't use
> > the word "whittler" around people who lived in Poland in WW2
>
> And it's in my mind that the damage would probably be.

Then it is *your* responsibility to let people know of your own
problems. Part of living in a society is to learn to deal with
*some* irritation from other people.

For example, if I considered the eating of spinach to be a horrendous
sin, I feel that I should remove myself from such situations. On the
other hand, I feel I have a right to be insulted if somebody deliberately
blows smoke in my face in an otherwise normal social situation.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
jayspamspam_OUTsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@170709 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Jinx wrote:

> Dave Van Horn wrote:
>> Well, in MY mind, "jury rigged" is too close to the racially insulting
>> terms.  I'm not offended when someone uses the "jury rigged" form
>> though.
>
> But that's in your head Dave. It's like saying that you shouldn't use
> the word "whittler" around people who lived in Poland in WW2

I'm not sure about how others feel, but in any case I don't know a single
German who would know that "jerry-rigged" has anything to do with being
German (I didn't, and since I lived for a time in the USA, I have a more
than average exposure to US slang) -- and much less would feel insulted by
it.

On the other side, the claimed extraordinary capacity of "jerry-rigging"
just about anything (they just call it differently) is a substantial part
of Brazilian national pride...

Now I could understand how some could be offended by talking about a
"rigged jury", but then removing this expression from the language would be
downright dangerous :)

Gerhard

2005\12\05@171124 by D. Jay Newman

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> > So in other words you make the decision about what *might* be
> > offensive to *somebody*
>
> But people do that all the time now in this PC-gone-mad world. You
> could probably cite examples all day

Yes. That's my point.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
@spam@jayKILLspamspamsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@171731 by D. Jay Newman

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> Well, in MY mind, "jury rigged" is too close to the racially insulting
> terms.  I'm not offended when someone uses the "jury rigged" form
> though.

If you get down to it, many terms that we use in normal life were
offensive at one time.

One thing I find highly amusing is the reoccurance of the word "frigging"
as a "polite" version of the normal "f*ck". I find this amusing because
"frigging" is a *much* harsher word than the word it is used to replace.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
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http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@172922 by Marcel duchamp

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Now I could understand how some could be offended by talking about a
> "rigged jury", but then removing this expression from the language would be
> downright dangerous :)
>
> Gerhard
>
Jury rig? Tsk, tsk.
Please, please! Be politically correct!

The proper term is "macgyver"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macgyver

2005\12\05@173829 by Howard Winter

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flavicon
picon face
Gerhard,

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:05:45 -0200, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

{Quote hidden}

But that isn't even the expression - there's "jury rigged" which is a 400-year-old expression describing
fixing an emergency mast on a boat, and "jerry built" which relates to a poor building technique, apparently
from the mid-1800s, and supposedly to do with an infamous building firm in Liverpool (in North East England).

Neither of them is racial (or in fact "national") in their target, and to avoid one because the other one may
possibly offend someone to whom it doesn't apply seems pretty daft to me!

People will start objecting to "Murphy's Law" next because it's a slur on the Irish...  (For the record,
Murphy was American, and he coined the phrase himself!).

All of this is in my opinion, of course.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\12\05@174058 by Howard Winter

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flavicon
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On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:06:24 -0500 (EST), D. Jay Newman wrote:

> One thing I find highly amusing is the reoccurance of the word "frigging"
> as a "polite" version of the normal "f*ck".

I'm not clear whether you realise that that *isn't* what it means?  And in the UK it certainly isn't
appropriate in polite company!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\12\05@175653 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
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Howard Winter wrote:

> People will start objecting to "Murphy's Law" next because it's a slur on the Irish...  (For the record,
> Murphy was American, and he coined the phrase himself!).

Examining the downhill slide of personal responsibility into the abyss
of the lowest-common-denominator of intelligence -- known as Political
Correctness -- one can only come to the following conclusion:

Murphy was an optimist.

;-)

Nate

2005\12\05@183024 by Jinx

face picon face

> For example, if I considered the eating of spinach to be a
> horrendous sin, I feel that I should remove myself from
> such situations

If, like most people, you view molestation as an horrendous
sin, then how would you react to being told that a man cannot
sit next to an unaccompanied child on an airplane and you have
to sit somewhere else, whether you wanted to or not ?

Whilst I appreciate (but dislike) why the airlines have this policy
for men in general, it still sucks at the personal level, because by
moving a particular individual, that is tantamount to baselessly
saying that a particular individual is in fact a molester. I'm so
glad a case has been filed with the Human Rights Commission

So you see, PC has become so comprehensively embedded that
one is no longer able to make all the choices one used to or go
about one's normal innocent business. I detest it

2005\12\05@193704 by D. Jay Newman

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> > For example, if I considered the eating of spinach to be a
> > horrendous sin, I feel that I should remove myself from
> > such situations
>
> If, like most people, you view molestation as an horrendous
> sin, then how would you react to being told that a man cannot
> sit next to an unaccompanied child on an airplane and you have
> to sit somewhere else, whether you wanted to or not ?

I vew molestation to be horrible. However, I would protest such a request
(demand) for anybody but a convicted child molester.

> Whilst I appreciate (but dislike) why the airlines have this policy
> for men in general, it still sucks at the personal level, because by

The interesting thing is that I've heard that women are more likely
to be molesters than men. This could be because women have more access.

> So you see, PC has become so comprehensively embedded that
> one is no longer able to make all the choices one used to or go
> about one's normal innocent business. I detest it

I think that this is more about fear than about PC. The media and the
US government seem to run on this fear.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
RemoveMEjayTakeThisOuTspamsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@194058 by D. Jay Newman

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face
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:06:24 -0500 (EST), D. Jay Newman wrote:
>
> > One thing I find highly amusing is the reoccurance of the word "frigging"
> > as a "polite" version of the normal "f*ck".
>
> I'm not clear whether you realise that that *isn't* what it means?  And in the UK it certainly isn't
> appropriate in polite company!

I'm sorry; I thought it was obvious that "frigging" is *much* worse than
the word it "replaces".
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
spamBeGonejayspamBeGonespamsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@201324 by Jinx

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> I vew molestation to be horrible. However, I would protest such a
> request (demand) for anybody but a convicted child molester

As Flip Wilson said - "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts and
minds of men ? The Shadow do". Airline staff are not The Shadow.
If they were, they wouldn't let drug smugglers on board, or would
know at a glance who has an infectious disease. Or is having an
affair. Who's to say there aren't any molesters working for airlines.
If they're men, they "must" be, right ?

I think eventually all towns will be called Cottonwoolville and
numbered

> I think that this is more about fear than about PC. The media and
> the US government seem to run on this fear.

You're probably right, athough most of this fear is misplaced and
irrational, and the reaction to it is be PC. Dare I mention profiling ?
And confiscating nail clippers ?


2005\12\05@203744 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Hmmm, while there's no need to be intentionally insensitive or
> provocative, I'd still use words that are etymologically correct

A sinister aspect of the attempt to do right by rendering all personal
descriptors gender-ambidextrous is that one needs to be especially
adroit in order to not appear gauche.


       RM


(I'm sure it could be made to make more sense with a little more
effort :-) ).


2005\12\05@205111 by James Newton, Host

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I'm not seeing great value in the direction this thread has turned and would
like to see it go away. I truly doubt that any good will come of it.

Please.

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2005\12\05@210450 by D. Jay Newman

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> > I think that this is more about fear than about PC. The media and
> > the US government seem to run on this fear.
>
> You're probably right, athough most of this fear is misplaced and
> irrational, and the reaction to it is be PC. Dare I mention profiling ?
> And confiscating nail clippers ?

Even the government is realizing that it went too far. The US is finally
relaxing the items allowable on airplanes. True, not to pre-9-11, but
I think a bit of sanity is creeping in.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
RemoveMEjayspamTakeThisOuTsprucegrove.com     ! To be released soon to unsuspecting bookstores
http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! everywhere.

2005\12\05@215606 by Jinx

face picon face

> I'm not seeing great value in the direction this thread has turned
> and would like to see it go away. I truly doubt that any good will
> come of it
>
> Please.

Okey-doke. Spleens have vented about what a crazy mixed-up
world it is with the wrong people having too much say

2005\12\05@220522 by Robert Ussery

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Russell McMahon wrote:

> A sinister aspect of the attempt to do right by rendering all personal
> descriptors gender-ambidextrous is that one needs to be especially
> adroit in order to not appear gauche.

ROFLOL!!

Very effective choice of words, Russell. I had to read it twice to get
the whole effect.

--
Robert Ussery
Undergraduate Research Asst.
Aerospace Systems Design Lab
Georgia Institute of Technology

2005\12\06@045106 by Steph Smith

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the term 'jury rig' is an old english nautical term to describe a temporary
repair to sails, 'jury' meaning temporary and 'rig' meaning sail.A saying
Any Liverpool kid worth his salt (another  nautical term,a ration !)knows.
{Original Message removed}

2005\12\06@142151 by Peter

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On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Mike Hord wrote:

>> I just wanted to point out that it comes from a bad neighborhood, and I
>> just avoid it because of that.
>
> Agreed.  I usually avoid any slang terms whose etymology I don't know.
> I'd hate to accidentally insult someone through my ignorance.

That would require that you restrict your vocabulary to about 500 words,
mostly non-dictionary type, and speak slowly and clearly all the time in
front of strangers. ;-)

Peter

2005\12\06@143324 by Danny Sauer

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Peter wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Brilliant DIY Camp Stove' on Dec 06 at 13:24:
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Mike Hord wrote:
>
> >Agreed.  I usually avoid any slang terms whose etymology I don't know.
> >I'd hate to accidentally insult someone through my ignorance.
>
> That would require that you restrict your vocabulary to about 500 words,
> mostly non-dictionary type, and speak slowly and clearly all the time in
> front of strangers. ;-)

Sorry, I find people who speak slowly and clearly with a limited
vocabulary to be offensive. :)

--Danny

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