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'[OT] Excellent F104 Starfighter page'
2005\08\19@073615 by Russell McMahon

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Excellent summary of this flawed but brilliant aircraft.
Very fast. Very capable. Very dangerous to fly.
Simultaneously held world speed, altitude and rate of climb records.
One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.

       http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/f/f/f-104_starfighter.htm


           RM

____________________________

>From another world:

> "Theoretically, survive anything that can go wrong (minus epsilon
> such as rolling inverted at 10 feet off the ground)".

Survivable in *some* F104 Starfighters* :-)

One time German not so funny joke:

Q    "How do you acquire a Starfighter?"

A     "Buy a plot of land, and wait."

(They lost over 30% of theirs in crashes).


           RM


* Those with the early Lockheed C1 downward firing ejection seat.

__________


2005\08\19@104510 by Mike Hord

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> Excellent summary of this flawed but brilliant aircraft.
> Very fast. Very capable. Very dangerous to fly.
> Simultaneously held world speed, altitude and rate of climb records.
> One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.

I think the fact that the F-104 killed Iven Kincheloe and almost
killed Chuck Yeager pretty much sums up its danger level...

Mike H.

2005\08\19@111115 by Howard Winter

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Russell,

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:59:37 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:

> One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.

Yes, hands up those who think that was a Good Idea?  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\08\19@112943 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 09:45 AM 8/19/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> > Excellent summary of this flawed but brilliant aircraft.
> > Very fast. Very capable. Very dangerous to fly.
> > Simultaneously held world speed, altitude and rate of climb records.
> > One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.
>
>I think the fact that the F-104 killed Iven Kincheloe and almost
>killed Chuck Yeager pretty much sums up its danger level...
>
>Mike H.

Some call it the "widowmaker". But a fighter-pilot friend who flew CF104s
way back when thought that most problems were attributable to pilot error.
<shrug>

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2005\08\19@113257 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 04:11 PM 8/19/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>Russell,
>
>On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:59:37 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:
>
> > One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.
>
>Yes, hands up those who think that was a Good Idea?  :-)

If the design choice gave enough improved performance to outmaneuver
a missile, maybe. I'm pretty sure it wasn't their first choice. ;-)

IIRC, the pilot had to be able to flip the plane over (or at least on its
side) if it was right-side-up and near the ground, in order to have a
chance of survival.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2005\08\19@123002 by Howard Winter

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Spehro,

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:36:47 -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

> Some call it the "widowmaker". But a fighter-pilot friend who flew CF104s
> way back when thought that most problems were attributable to pilot error.
> <shrug>

Well the error of "failing to come back alive" was certainly made by a remarkable number of pilots!  In any
human-interactive system, being unforgiving of mistakes is a design failing, in my opinion, because you can't
expect people to react correctly, in a short time-frame, every time, regardless of the situation - we aren't
that good!  DC-10's ploughed-in due to "Ground handling errors", but the fact that those errors could be made,
went undetected, and resulted in the loss of the aircraft, is a design shortcoming.  Murphy is always ready to
clobber you if you try to pretend he isn't there.

"To lose one aircraft may be regarded as misfortune - to lose several looks like carelessness!"  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\08\19@125621 by Howard Winter

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Spehro,

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:40:02 -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I fon't think it did anything to the performance - I believe they were worried that the seat wouldn't clear
the tail if it went upwards.  The next model did so, so I'm not sure why they couldn't have worked on that
problem with the first one instead of going for the self-burying option...

> IIRC, the pilot had to be able to flip the plane over (or at least on its
> side) if it was right-side-up and near the ground, in order to have a
> chance of survival.

Quite!  So anything which gave roll-control problems (damaged wing, damaged or jammed ailerons or flaps,
jammed rudder, etc) made it impossible to bang out safely.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\08\19@134713 by Mauro

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www.starfighters.nl/ami/21sqnbs.jpg


----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell McMahon" <apptechspamKILLspamparadise.net.nz>
To: "PIC List" <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:59 AM
Subject: [OT] Excellent F104 Starfighter page


> Excellent summary of this flawed but brilliant aircraft.
> Very fast. Very capable. Very dangerous to fly.
> Simultaneously held world speed, altitude and rate of climb records.
> One of a very few aircraft with a downward firing ejector seat.
>
>
www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/f/f/f-104_starfighter.htm
{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\08\19@164021 by John Ferrell

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Access is forbidden to me...
John Ferrell    
http://DixieNC.US

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mauro" <EraseMEmdaspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTfrg.com.br>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Excellent F104 Starfighter page


{Quote hidden}

>> --

2005\08\20@042301 by Electron

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At 16.44 2005.08.19 -0400, you wrote:
>Access is forbidden to me...

They know who you are.. you commie! ;)


>John Ferrell    
>http://DixieNC.US
>
>{Original Message removed}

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