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'[PIC]: Switching a 220V AC Electric Bi Directional'
2000\08\31@110359 by Francois Robbertze

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face
Hi all,

I have difficulties switching a forward and reverse motor with a pic, triac
and optocoupler combination!

The motor is a typical electrionic gate opener motor - three wires -
neutral, live(forward) and live(reverse) with a starting cap between forward
and reverse.

The obvious way is to use two relays. The one relay control the direction
and the other one switch the current...

I want to do it without relays!!!!

I have connect  two MOC3011 optocouplers  and  two IT416  triac's to a picto
control this motor, but damage the two IT's......
I can connect either forward or reverse, but not both!!

                                               100R
LED
MotorReverse--+----------------/\/\/\--------------,
_______                / /
  220VLive        I        ________________I______ 4 _I
I_2_____I  \ ___to 0V
                           I       /                                    I
5_I    MOC  I               I  /
                      _____/                                      I ______6
_I   3011   I _1______to PIC(RB0)
                        \  //\
I_______I
     IT416          \//  \
     Triac         --------
                           I
                           I_______
                                           I
                                           I    100R
MotorForward--+------------I----/\/\/\--------------,
_______                / /
   220VLive       I        ___I_____________I______ 4 _I
I_2_____I  \ ___to 0V
                           I       /       I                             I
5_I    MOC  I                I  /
                      __ I __/        I                             I_
_____6 _I   3011   I _1______to PIC(RB1)
                        \  //\             I
I_______I
     IT416          \//  \            I
     Triac         --------          I
                           I               I
                           I______+
                                           I
                                           I
                                           I
                                           I
                                           I
                                           I   To 220V Neutral

Can someone help?

Kindest regards

Francois Robbertze
spam_OUTfr10TakeThisOuTspammweb.co.za

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2000\08\31@114050 by Olin Lathrop

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>                                                 100R
> LED
> MotorReverse--+----------------/\/\/\--------------,
> _______                / /
>    220VLive        I        ________________I______ 4 _I
> I_2_____I  \ ___to 0V
>                             I       /                                    I
> 5_I    MOC  I               I  /
>                        _____/                                      I
______6
{Quote hidden}

This looks like gibberrish unless someone just happens to use the same
proportionally spaced font you do.  I use a fixed spaced font for this
reason.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, .....olinKILLspamspam@spam@cognivis.com, http://www.cognivis.com

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'[PIC]: Switching a 220V AC Electric Bi Directional'
2000\09\01@044333 by Francois Robbertze
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face
part 1 997 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

Hallo again to all PicList members,

I have difficulties switching a forward and reverse 220V AC bi directional
motor with a pic, triacand optocoupler combination!

The motor is a typical electric sliding gate opener motor - three wires -
neutral, live(forward) and live(reverse) with a starting cap between forward
and reverse.

The obvious way is to use two relays. The one relay control the direction
and the other one switch the current...

I want to do it without relays!!!!

I have connect  two MOC3011 optocouplers  and  two IT416  triac's to a pic
to
control this motor, but this configuration damage the two IT's......
I can connect either forward or reverse, but not both!!

(It seems like the back EMF from the oposite direction switch the motor on
in the opposite direction as well and the motor just vibrates - not sure)

Attached is a unscrambled version of the layout...


Can someone help?

Kindest regards

Francois Robbertze
fr10spamKILLspammweb.co.za




part 2 1955 bytes content-type:text/plain;
(decoded quoted-printable)



                     MotorReverse---+-----/\/\/--------+
220V AC        |     100R         |             +            |                  |               |            |                  |      |            |                  |           ______
 |            |    /-------------|--------4-|      |-3   |            |   /              |          |      |          / /
 |           ------              |          | MOC  |        |\   |     Triac \  /\               |        5-| 3011 |-2------| |------->GND
 |     IT416  \/  \              |          |OptoC |        |/          |           ------              |          |      |
 |             |                 +--------6-|______|-1------/\/\/-----To PIC(RB0)
 |             |                                            100R
---            |
CAP            +--------+                 ---                     |              |                      |                 +                      |     MotorForward----+--------|---/\/\/------+
220V AC         |        |   100R       |                           |        |              |                             |        |              |                    |        |              |       ______                  |    /---|--------------|----4-|      |-3                 |   /    |              |      |      |         / /
             ------     |              |      | MOC  |        |\         Triac \  /\      |              |    5-| 3011 |-2------| |------->GND
       IT416  \/  \     |              |      |OptoC |        |/        
             ------     |              |      |      |                 |        |              +----6-|______|-1------/\/\/-----To PIC(RB1)
               |        |                                     100R
               |        |
               +--------+                                                              |
Neutral---------+   220V AC



part 3 129 bytes
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2000\09\01@045617 by McMeikan, Andrew

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triacs can turn on when dv/dt is too great, try putting in a snubber network
like (and this is just a guess)

Motor lead-----L-------------
           |-C--|       |   Opto
               C            C   coupler
Neutral   -------------------

for some value of components this should work YMMV :) adjust font till it
makes (some) sense

        cya,   Andrew...




> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\01@070145 by Rex's Dingo Mail

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Have you looked at snubbers (series RC combination) across the triacs to
lower the dvdt voltage rise in the reverse direction ?


Rex Pearson

{Original Message removed}

2000\09\01@101913 by M. Adam Davis

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Triacs are not well suited to inductive loads without the proper support
components.  You would have slightly better luck with SCRs, but you really need
to include a snubber circuit.

For this particular application, relays really are the best way to go.  If you
needed to switch the AC waveform in some special way, then triacs are great, but
this application is just yelling for relays.

If you are unfamiliar with snubber circuitry, pick up some solid state relays,
which will have this built in.  You can get 3 amp versions from radio shack.
You should also consider getting ones with built in zero-crossing detector,
which will minimize the line noise created when switching the motor on.

-Adam

Francois Robbertze wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\02@061454 by Oliver Broad

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I wonder what voltage is on the other direction input when one direction is
active, with the motor running normally it should develop a voltage
90degrees out of phase with the mains and just as big. Stalled it gets
worse. This may lead to the off-triac going overvoltage since they may be
rated not much more than normal mains. The only cure I can see is a higher
voltage triac or paired thyristors and you may have to wire the MOC3011s
differently to prevent them 'seeing' the overvoltage.

Oliver.

{Original Message removed}

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