Post by thread:MAXIM small orders system

It sure would be nice if companies like Mototola and TI would also realize that some of the people who try to buy two or three parts today without a mimimum order quantity are the same people who will need two or three hundred thousand i n the future. But I guess that is one of the reasons why Maxim is one of the fastest growing semiconductor companies while others are going nowhere. Thierry Vanmarcke wrote: {Quote hidden}> > For those who don't know :-) > > Maxim have a small order system which allows you to buy direct from them > > off the web. > > Prices are available in 1 / 25 / 100 quantity in a 480K PDF > > > > Prices seem dearish (ie cheaper than Farnell but still > 50% of Farnell in > > most cases). > > BUT if they send these as fast as they send samples then the service is > > excellent (YMMV :-)) > > Well, actually, if you order only 2 parts, they will sometimes send them for > free (as samples). Happened to me, I ordered 2 samples of the MAX1480 which > never arrived. After trying again without success, I ordered 2 by using their > small order service and got an e-mail from their sales department saying that > I would not be charged for it! > > Long life free samples !

> > It sure would be nice if companies like Mototola and TI would also realize > that > > some of the people who try to buy two or three parts today without a > mimimum > > order quantity are the same people who will need two or three hundred > thousand in > > the future. But I guess that is one of the reasons why Maxim is one of > the > > fastest growing semiconductor companies while others are going nowhere. > > > Except that they quote like 10-12 week lead times. Maxim has a nice growing story, they started to pack interesting functions inside DIP8 and other DIP packages, as counters, decoders and other functions, in a way to substitute 3, 4, or more digital / analog chips. They grew in the market by this way, analog, power control chips, conversion, communication, then focused heavy in miniaturization for cellular devices with very low power and high speed (digital, analog and RF)... It is getting hard to find a Maxim's DIP package, almost everything is being done in those microscopic packages. They have some very nice chips that everyone would love to use, but it impossible to solder by hand. Probably their big customers don't use DIP packages anymore, so why still producing DIP? Well, even big customers need to produce prototypes and development units. They diversified switching power chips by increasing features and better specs, and the vaste different models created a problem. If you want to produce a SPS with 5V output and 2 to 5 input, you will be crazy, there are at least 15 different chips dedicated to this job, and probably other dozen that can also do it, and you know that there is one that it is better than the others for your particular application, but it is not clear which one. As Maxim was the first one to produce those kind of hybride chips, they fixed a market price for it, along with the free samples and plenty of free literature. Somebody needs to pay for it, right? What happens right now is that other companies produce similar products, as Analog devices, Linear Tech, and several others with very competitive prices. Take a look for example at the RS232 interface chips, several other companies produce it by a much better price than Maxim. I guess Maxim can not reduce their prices because they have a strong marketing policy and it takes a big bite of the profit. The traditional answer about 2-12 weeks lead time, changes everytime you made the call, at the same day, same hour, and I guess it is not a real production lead time, just an inventory relocation "guessing time". When you ask for a free sample, in real it is not free, you will pay for it (and much more) when you develop a board using Maxim's part, and then you *will need* to produce it in hundreds or thousands using Maxim's parts. Their marketing strategy is correct, at least they allow developpers to *have* parts for free, but how can you produce a prototype using a TSSOP package with 0.5mm pitch (pin to pin distance)? Texas Instruments use a different approach, they send those tinny chips soldered over a small printed circuit board to allow you to do easy wiring. I like Maxim's vision of the future and strategies, they are always investing and creating, for sure our electronic world would be different without their technology push. *** Long Life to the DIP *** Wagner Lipnharski UST Research Inc. http://www.ustr.net

At 10:23 AM 8/20/99 -0400, Wagner Lipnharski wrote: >It is getting hard to find a Maxim's DIP package, almost everything is >being done in those microscopic packages. They have some very nice chips >that everyone would love to use, but it impossible to solder by hand. >Probably their big customers don't use DIP packages anymore, so why >still producing DIP? Well, even big customers need to produce >prototypes and development units. This is getting to be a big problem for prototypes... I was recently looking to replace an LMC660 quad op-amp that buffers and filters humidity sensors in my PIC-based weather station. The sensor output, on rare occasions, was exceeding the common mode input of the LMC660 and TI had a true rail to rail I/O op-amp but it's not available in a DIP package... I fully understand the need for smaller packages and the dwindling market for DIPs but I would be willing to pay for DIP samples for evaluation. It's getting to the point where you have a hard time finding even low frequency analog chips in DIP packages... I recently requested a voltage reference sample and I received four samples in a TSOP package even though it was suppose to be available in a DIP... - Tom >Wagner Lipnharski >UST Research Inc. >http://www.ustr.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Handley New Age Communications Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

Tom Handley wrote: > I fully understand the need for smaller packages and the dwindling market > for DIPs but I would be willing to pay for DIP samples for evaluation. It's > getting to the point where you have a hard time finding even low frequency > analog chips in DIP packages... I recently requested a voltage reference > sample and I received four samples in a TSOP package even though it was > suppose to be available in a DIP... I believe it is time to someone crazy as us develop a DIP package adapter socket for TSSOP's, SOIC's SOP's and other small bacterias and microscopic animals to be able to be inserted onto a Protoboard, isn't? I am pretty sure it would sell quite well, not in millions, but... can you imagine to be able to use that "rail to rail TI quad amplifier" you are looking for and insert at that old PCB DIP holes? using a cheap $1 adapter socket? I would buy a bunch of it... :) The only ones I ever saw were PLCC adapters to tru hole (JDR or Jameco sell those), but it doesn't follow DIP measurements. Wagner.

Hi wagner, the picture in my head is a thin pcb sized to fit inside the socket, with square holes to fit into the socket, sized for those breakaway square .010 header strip pins that are double-ended. then you could just break off the number of leg pins you need, and solder on the legs at the same time as you stick down the bug. seems like a a bunch of different sizes could be laid out in rows on an 8x10 pcb. alice {Quote hidden}> Tom Handley wrote: > > I fully understand the need for smaller packages and the dwindling market > > for DIPs but I would be willing to pay for DIP samples for evaluation. It's > > getting to the point where you have a hard time finding even low frequency > > analog chips in DIP packages... I recently requested a voltage reference > > sample and I received four samples in a TSOP package even though it was > > suppose to be available in a DIP... > > I believe it is time to someone crazy as us develop a DIP package > adapter socket for TSSOP's, SOIC's SOP's and other small bacterias and > microscopic animals to be able to be inserted onto a Protoboard, isn't? > I am pretty sure it would sell quite well, not in millions, but... can > you imagine to be able to use that "rail to rail TI quad amplifier" you > are looking for and insert at that old PCB DIP holes? using a cheap $1 > adapter socket? I would buy a bunch of it... :) The only ones I ever > saw were PLCC adapters to tru hole (JDR or Jameco sell those), but it > doesn't follow DIP measurements. > > Wagner. >

Wagner, if we could do adapters for $1 in single qty, I would sell my house to raise startup capital ;-) There are adapters but they are relatively expensive considering you still have to solder the SOIC, etc, to the adapter. Then there are `older' guys like me who have difficulty soldering at 0.050" and below ;-) - Tom At 11:30 AM 8/20/99 -0400, Wagner Lipnharski wrote: >Tom Handley wrote: >> I fully understand the need for smaller packages and the dwindling market {Quote hidden}>> for DIPs but I would be willing to pay for DIP samples for evaluation. It's >> getting to the point where you have a hard time finding even low frequency >> analog chips in DIP packages... I recently requested a voltage reference >> sample and I received four samples in a TSOP package even though it was >> suppose to be available in a DIP... > >I believe it is time to someone crazy as us develop a DIP package >adapter socket for TSSOP's, SOIC's SOP's and other small bacterias and >microscopic animals to be able to be inserted onto a Protoboard, isn't? >I am pretty sure it would sell quite well, not in millions, but... can >you imagine to be able to use that "rail to rail TI quad amplifier" you >are looking for and insert at that old PCB DIP holes? using a cheap $1 >adapter socket? I would buy a bunch of it... :) The only ones I ever >saw were PLCC adapters to tru hole (JDR or Jameco sell those), but it >doesn't follow DIP measurements. > >Wagner. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Handley New Age Communications Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

Tom Handley wrote: > Wagner, if we could do adapters for $1 in single qty, I would sell my > house to raise startup capital ;-) Whilst understanding that Tom is pooh-pooing the practicality of getting down to $1 a board, it seems to me that if it were to be practical at all, there is *no way* you would *ever* offer them as "single qty". I note the local electronics shop now sells resistors only in packs of five, or twos for the large ones (as Tandy = Radio Shack always did). This seems to me the only sensible approach. I can't think of a time when I ever needed to buy one resistor; for whatever reason I wanted the one, it would always have been sensible to have the remainder in stock for next time - to avoid a trip where possible. If you were making these adapter boards (and I think they should be made), you would *never* want to ship less than ten to anyone. At that rate, they should still be cheap to do. -- Cheers, Paul B.

At 08:09 20.8.1999 -0700, you wrote: > I fully understand the need for smaller packages and the dwindling market >for DIPs but I would be willing to pay for DIP samples for evaluation. It's >getting to the point where you have a hard time finding even low frequency >analog chips in DIP packages... I recently requested a voltage reference >sample and I received four samples in a TSOP package even though it was >suppose to be available in a DIP... The lack of DIPs is really a problem. But I can say, that it is possible (and funny sometines) to do prototyping on SMDs. Couple of months ago, I almost converted to SMDs and I can say that I am happy now, because I do not need to drill holes in PCBs or buy expensive universal boards. When I am prototyping, I firstly make a design in Eagle, that I make fast (not optimized) PCB for SMD components. I print the PCB on laser printer, etch it either in my company or at home (in bathroom) and I am ready to solder. The only thing which I bought specially for it is a hot air solder/desolder station (around 1000 USD). With the hot air, it is possible to change parts with different values very quickly. When I need to add ICs, I simply solder thin teflon isolated wires on SMD parts and I can than solder those wires directly to PCB traces. For really small parts, like uMAX and TSOP, I am using small PCB rectangles with etched traces and I am soldering wires to the traces. Best regards PavelK ************************************************************************** * Pavel KorenskyÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * * DATOR3 LAN Services spol. s r.o.ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * * Styblova 13, 140 00, Prague 4, Czech Republic ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * *ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * * PGP Key fingerprint:Ê F3 E1 AE BC 34 18 CB A6Ê CC D0 DA 9E 79 03 41 D4 * *ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * * SUMMA SCIENTIA - NIHIL SCIREÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ * **************************************************************************

This brings up an interesting question... I'm just a teen (17) hobbyist with no big company and no desires for 1,000,000+ parts. I've ordered numerous samples from Maxim, Nat'l Semi, and TI. I was told by someone that I'm lying in a way because I wouldn't be purchasing mass amounts of these parts. So I ask..is it wrong? What happens if I invent something using one of these parts and I need more and more of 'em? Speaking of which, I ordered a sample of TI's TLC0831 -- it's an 8-bit A/D Converter. Well, I used that to write a magazine article (It'll be in Nuts & Volts), so in the long run, this will boost the (depending on how many readers there are) demand for this particular chip. Actually, Nat'l Semi. makes the same chip -- ADC0831 which is more available. A thought to ponder, Tim Hamel Steve Baldwin wrote: {Quote hidden}> > FREE sample arrive in NZ (bottom of the world) in about a week > > Nat semi also have a small quantity buy system. With the sample > system, I was getting samples from the US before the local guys > had come back with a price. > "A web site just for design engineers" and "pre-production > quantities" it says in the ad. > > http://buy.national.com > > Steve. > > ====================================================== > Steve Baldwin Electronic Product Design > TLA Microsystems Ltd Microcontroller Specialists > PO Box 15-680, New Lynn http://www.tla.co.nz > Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 820-2221 > email: EraseMEstevebspam_OUTTakeThisOuTtla.co.nz fax +64 9 820-1929 > ======================================================

Hi Tim! I am also a teen (19) hobbyist/student. Its been a while since the subject of age came up here,but I'd be interested to see how many of us there are on the list. I also use a fairly large number of free samples. I don't see how one could label it as lying,unless the question is specifically asked "How many do you expect to use?" and I were to reply with a very large number. In fact, I usually inform them that I am an engineering student. I'm not sure how much more ground that gains me versus a hobbyist. I feel very strongly that it is beneficial to a company to send free samples to people like us. As you say, you might come up with a product one day that you wish to market,and you are more likely to use their parts in it. In addition, you may decide to become an engineer,in which case your familiarity with their products is a clear advantage to them. Sean At 05:12 PM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>This brings up an interesting question... I'm just a teen (17) hobbyist >with no big company and no desires for 1,000,000+ parts. I've ordered >numerous samples from Maxim, Nat'l Semi, and TI. I was told by someone >that I'm lying in a way because I wouldn't be purchasing mass amounts of >these parts. So I ask..is it wrong? What happens if I invent something >using one of these parts and I need more and more of 'em? Speaking of >which, I ordered a sample of TI's TLC0831 -- it's an 8-bit A/D >Converter. Well, I used that to write a magazine article (It'll be in >Nuts & Volts), so in the long run, this will boost the (depending on how >many readers there are) demand for this particular chip. Actually, Nat'l >Semi. makes the same chip -- ADC0831 which is more available. > >A thought to ponder, > >Tim Hamel | | Sean Breheny | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM | Electrical Engineering Student \--------------=---------------- Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 shb7spam_OUTcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

I'm glad SOMEONE agrees with me! It is good PR to give out samples, EVEN to hobbyists. I'd say the majority of the people on this list are in the mid-20s on up -- either way, I look up to ya guys/gals =) I do hope to have the title "Embedded Systems Engineer" slapped on a resume some day! Anyways, I appreciate your feedback Sean. Now I won't feel so guilty in ordering samples =) Tim Hamel Sean H. Breheny wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi Tim! > > I am also a teen (19) hobbyist/student. Its been a while since the subject > of age came up here,but I'd be interested to see how many of us there are > on the list. > > I also use a fairly large number of free samples. I don't see how one could > label it as lying,unless the question is specifically asked "How many do > you expect to use?" and I were to reply with a very large number. In fact, > I usually inform them that I am an engineering student. I'm not sure how > much more ground that gains me versus a hobbyist. > > I feel very strongly that it is beneficial to a company to send free > samples to people like us. As you say, you might come up with a product one > day that you wish to market,and you are more likely to use their parts in > it. In addition, you may decide to become an engineer,in which case your > familiarity with their products is a clear advantage to them. > > Sean > > At 05:12 PM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > >This brings up an interesting question... I'm just a teen (17) hobbyist > >with no big company and no desires for 1,000,000+ parts. I've ordered > >numerous samples from Maxim, Nat'l Semi, and TI. I was told by someone > >that I'm lying in a way because I wouldn't be purchasing mass amounts of > >these parts. So I ask..is it wrong? What happens if I invent something > >using one of these parts and I need more and more of 'em? Speaking of > >which, I ordered a sample of TI's TLC0831 -- it's an 8-bit A/D > >Converter. Well, I used that to write a magazine article (It'll be in > >Nuts & Volts), so in the long run, this will boost the (depending on how > >many readers there are) demand for this particular chip. Actually, Nat'l > >Semi. makes the same chip -- ADC0831 which is more available. > > > >A thought to ponder, > > > >Tim Hamel > > | > | Sean Breheny > | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM > | Electrical Engineering Student > \--------------=---------------- > Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org > Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 > @spam@shb7KILLspamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

At 23:17 23/08/99 -0400, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hi Tim! > >I am also a teen (19) hobbyist/student. Its been a while since the subject >of age came up here,but I'd be interested to see how many of us there are >on the list. > >I also use a fairly large number of free samples. I don't see how one could >label it as lying,unless the question is specifically asked "How many do >you expect to use?" and I were to reply with a very large number. In fact, >I usually inform them that I am an engineering student. I'm not sure how >much more ground that gains me versus a hobbyist. > >I feel very strongly that it is beneficial to a company to send free >samples to people like us. As you say, you might come up with a product one >day that you wish to market,and you are more likely to use their parts in >it. In addition, you may decide to become an engineer,in which case your >familiarity with their products is a clear advantage to them. > >Sean > So it you want an electric motor do you say that you're a fan manufacturer? When you need a new motor for your car do you say that your a car designer? When you need a new vacum do you say that you wish to tial it for your cleaning company? When you want chewing gum, do you say that you're a taste tester? When you want a bottle of wine to you say that you're a wine conesire? When you want a new house, do you say that you're homeless? When you fail to stop at a red light and get caught by a read light cammera, do you say that you where testing the cammera operation? The list goes on... Dennis

Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Tom Handley wrote: > > > Wagner, if we could do adapters for $1 in single qty, I would sell my > > house to raise startup capital ;-) > > Whilst understanding that Tom is pooh-pooing the practicality of > getting down to $1 a board, it seems to me that if it were to be > practical at all, there is *no way* you would *ever* offer them as > "single qty". > > I note the local electronics shop now sells resistors only in packs > of five, or twos for the large ones (as Tandy = Radio Shack always did). > This seems to me the only sensible approach. I can't think of a time > when I ever needed to buy one resistor; for whatever reason I wanted the > one, it would always have been sensible to have the remainder in stock > for next time - to avoid a trip where possible. > > If you were making these adapter boards (and I think they should be > made), you would *never* want to ship less than ten to anyone. At that > rate, they should still be cheap to do. > -- > Cheers, > Paul B. Maybe sell 12-packs, and allow people to "Mix and match" (or at least to pick from several options?) I would use more than one style of these, most likely others would too. Mark

Im 16. i too use free samples and i feel as you do. I will also be an engineering student this year, at caltech. I have already used samples (maxim in fact) on a product that i had planned on marketing and patenting, but then i found out that it was patented in 96 *doh* oh well, the experience was invaluable, and i am already in love with maxims products. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A member of the PI-100 Club: 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751 058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Sean H. Breheny wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi Tim! > > I am also a teen (19) hobbyist/student. Its been a while since the subject > of age came up here,but I'd be interested to see how many of us there are > on the list. > > I also use a fairly large number of free samples. I don't see how one could > label it as lying,unless the question is specifically asked "How many do > you expect to use?" and I were to reply with a very large number. In fact, > I usually inform them that I am an engineering student. I'm not sure how > much more ground that gains me versus a hobbyist. > > I feel very strongly that it is beneficial to a company to send free > samples to people like us. As you say, you might come up with a product one > day that you wish to market,and you are more likely to use their parts in > it. In addition, you may decide to become an engineer,in which case your > familiarity with their products is a clear advantage to them. > > Sean > > > At 05:12 PM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > >This brings up an interesting question... I'm just a teen (17) hobbyist > >with no big company and no desires for 1,000,000+ parts. I've ordered > >numerous samples from Maxim, Nat'l Semi, and TI. I was told by someone > >that I'm lying in a way because I wouldn't be purchasing mass amounts of > >these parts. So I ask..is it wrong? What happens if I invent something > >using one of these parts and I need more and more of 'em? Speaking of > >which, I ordered a sample of TI's TLC0831 -- it's an 8-bit A/D > >Converter. Well, I used that to write a magazine article (It'll be in > >Nuts & Volts), so in the long run, this will boost the (depending on how > >many readers there are) demand for this particular chip. Actually, Nat'l > >Semi. makes the same chip -- ADC0831 which is more available. > > > >A thought to ponder, > > > >Tim Hamel > > | > | Sean Breheny > | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM > | Electrical Engineering Student > \--------------=---------------- > Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org > Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 > KILLspamshb7KILLspamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html >

> hobbyists. I'd say the majority of the people on this list are in the mid-20s > on up -- either way, I look up to ya guys/gals =) I do hope to have the title > "Embedded Systems Engineer" slapped on a resume some day! I could describe myself as that (embedded systems engineer). And I'm 24 now. I've been doing it for work, for over 3 years now, first just a couple "loose" projects to show my skills, then the latest 2 years as a steady job. In my current work, I do microcontroller software, design the hardware around it (from proto to layout to production plan); design the enclosure, specify and buy the parts, do the product testing after production, and finally I've also had to make the Windows-based configuration programs. Argh... Well, the fun part is that I get to do most of it at home. If you didn't get it by now, my workplace only has 1 full-time employee (me) and two part-time marketroids. About samples, I've used Maxim's system, sometimes to get actually needed new parts, sometimes just to look at the part, test it a bit, say "oh, cool" and put it to gather dust in a closet... sometimes even to use them in a hobby project. Since I'm actually doing my work, I've also gotten samples from distributors. It's a bit harder than just clicking some buttons on a WWW form - you actually have to talk to someone on the phone :-)

Dennis Plunkett wrote: > So it you want an electric motor do you say that you're a fan manufacturer? > When you need a new motor for your car do you say that your a car designer? > When you need a new vacum do you say that you wish to tial it for your > cleaning company? > When you want chewing gum, do you say that you're a taste tester? > When you want a bottle of wine to you say that you're a wine conesire? > When you want a new house, do you say that you're homeless? > When you fail to stop at a red light and get caught by a read light > cammera, do you say that you where testing the cammera operation? Well Dennis, you are right, but according to the sales people point of view (they have sales points and volume to do), they will always choose to sell a single motor (in real they are willing to give it for free) to a fan manufacturer instead to a hobbiest person. There are two points of view, the first one is from the company visionary person, the president or owner, this guy invest into the future and he is able to sacrifice today to collect tomorrow. The second is from the sales people, they just *don't care* about the company's future, they can jump from one company to another as fast as you change your underware. In most cases (if not all) they only see their bank account numbers. This is so real, that they =need= to have sales points to do, they would not need it if they worry about the company's future, huh? We need to understand the machine (in this case the distributor companies) to deal and work with them accordingly. They are suppose to deal with big companies and also students (hobbiests) in the same manner, but are they? If they suppose to but they are not, should we not act in the same way? This is a very controversial matter, and everyone needs to find out the best way to deal with distributors.

>This is a very controversial matter, and everyone needs to find out the >best way to deal with distributors. To quote someone famous in American history, Honesty is the best policy. I deal with sales companies all the time as part of my job. My hobbies also generate some sales for these same folks. When dealing with them, most of these sales guys have been told (by me) to ask if it's for business or for a "toy." If it's for business, they ask volume questions. If it isn't, the samples (not always free) come because of the volume of other business I do with them. You have to build a relationship with them. Always deal with the same person, treat him/her well, and BE HONEST. They won't ship samples if they figure out you're lying. So if it's a small run - tell them. If it's for a toy - tell them. Then when you tell them you have a big order, they'll believe you and when it comes through, everybody will be happy. Andy ================================================================== Andy Kunz Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity ------------------------------------------------------------------ RemoveMEandyTakeThisOuTrc-hydros.com http://www.rc-hydros.com - Race Boats spamBeGoneandyspamBeGonemontanadesign.com http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics ==================================================================

Hi Dennis, Well, maybe I didn't make myself clear,but I AM an electrical engineering student at Cornell University. If I were not,then I would be lying and that would be wrong. You are right,in general,I have no reason to expect free samples from companies. However, when we are dealing with electronic parts,they can at least expect that in a few years, I will be in a position to select parts for large production runs,and I will be more likely to select parts that I am familiar with. Sean At 03:01 PM 8/24/99 +1000, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>So it you want an electric motor do you say that you're a fan manufacturer? >When you need a new motor for your car do you say that your a car designer? >When you need a new vacum do you say that you wish to tial it for your >cleaning company? >When you want chewing gum, do you say that you're a taste tester? >When you want a bottle of wine to you say that you're a wine conesire? >When you want a new house, do you say that you're homeless? >When you fail to stop at a red light and get caught by a read light >cammera, do you say that you where testing the cammera operation? > >The list goes on... > > >Dennis > | | Sean Breheny | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM | Electrical Engineering Student \--------------=---------------- Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 TakeThisOuTshb7EraseMEspam_OUTcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Wagner Lipnharski wrote: [snip] > There are two points of view, the first one is from the company > visionary person, the president or owner, this guy invest into the > future and he is able to sacrifice today to collect tomorrow. The second > is from the sales people, they just *don't care* about the company's > future, they can jump from one company to another as fast as you change > your underware. In most cases (if not all) they only see their bank > account numbers. There are many presidents, CEOs, etc. who are _NOT_ visionary, who are only interest in this month's or this quarter's P&L statement. The company that allows today's poor student access to free/inexpensive hardware and software may well be influencing tomorrow's purchasing officer. From a pragmatic perspective, the poor student probably doesn't have the means for purchasing the items any way ... especially on the software side of the market. I'm an old fart, and never ask for free samples, nor do I use pirated software ... but if I were a student I most certainly would. - Nick -

Boy, all you yung'ins. Did the same when I was your age. Some 35-40 years ago. Just one comment: We tend to get infatuated with one or two vendors over the years--usually the first ones we work with. There are other, sometimes better, often cheaper alternatives to Maxim. Case in point is their MAX666 regulator. Analog devices makes an equivalent for 30% less cost, and better specs. Also, the Telcom TC55 is incredible for new designs. I'm not bashing Maxim--I've specified their devices in many new designs, and they have gotten their money's worth and then some with all the free samples over the years. But there ARE alternatives (to microchip too, for that matter--ahhhh blasphemy....) and it really pays to look around and developed a strong relationship with the field app engineers with the various distributors. Kelly At 10:40 PM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >Im 16. i too use free samples and i feel as you do. I will also be an >engineering student this year, at caltech. I have already used samples >(maxim in fact) on a product that i had planned on marketing and >patenting, but then i found out that it was patented in 96 *doh* oh well, >the experience was invaluable, and i am already in love with maxims >products. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- {Quote hidden}>A member of the PI-100 Club: >3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751 >058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 > >On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Sean H. Breheny wrote: > >> Hi Tim! >> >> I am also a teen (19) hobbyist/student. Its been a while since the subject >> of age came up here,but I'd be interested to see how many of us there are >> on the list. >> >> I also use a fairly large number of free samples. I don't see how one could >> label it as lying,unless the question is specifically asked "How many do >> you expect to use?" and I were to reply with a very large number. In fact, >> I usually inform them that I am an engineering student. I'm not sure how >> much more ground that gains me versus a hobbyist. >> >> I feel very strongly that it is beneficial to a company to send free >> samples to people like us. As you say, you might come up with a product one >> day that you wish to market,and you are more likely to use their parts in >> it. In addition, you may decide to become an engineer,in which case your >> familiarity with their products is a clear advantage to them. >> >> Sean >> >> >> At 05:12 PM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >This brings up an interesting question... I'm just a teen (17) hobbyist >> >with no big company and no desires for 1,000,000+ parts. I've ordered >> >numerous samples from Maxim, Nat'l Semi, and TI. I was told by someone >> >that I'm lying in a way because I wouldn't be purchasing mass amounts of >> >these parts. So I ask..is it wrong? What happens if I invent something >> >using one of these parts and I need more and more of 'em? Speaking of >> >which, I ordered a sample of TI's TLC0831 -- it's an 8-bit A/D >> >Converter. Well, I used that to write a magazine article (It'll be in >> >Nuts & Volts), so in the long run, this will boost the (depending on how >> >many readers there are) demand for this particular chip. Actually, Nat'l >> >Semi. makes the same chip -- ADC0831 which is more available. >> > >> >A thought to ponder, >> > >> >Tim Hamel >> >> | >> | Sean Breheny >> | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM >> | Electrical Engineering Student >> \--------------=---------------- >> Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org >> Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 >> RemoveMEshb7TakeThisOuTcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 >> ________________________________________________________ >> NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? >> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at >> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html >> > > William K. Borsum, P.E. -- OEM Dataloggers and Instrumentation Systems <borsumEraseME.....dascor.com> & <http://www.dascor.com>

> So it you want an electric motor do you say that you're a fan manufacturer? > When you need a new motor for your car do you say that your a car designer? > When you need a new vacum do you say that you wish to tial it for your > cleaning company? > When you want chewing gum, do you say that you're a taste tester? > When you want a bottle of wine to you say that you're a wine conesire? > When you want a new house, do you say that you're homeless? > When you fail to stop at a red light and get caught by a read light > cammera, do you say that you where testing the cammera operation? > > The list goes on... > > > Dennis > I take it Maxim and the like aren't idiots, if there weren't gold in dem dar hills they wouldn't be diggin. I personally go out of my way to use "designer friendly " companies, which are not that common especially when you tell them you work for a Psychology Dept, but since we are going to the market( and patent office) with several items we have developed, I guess those companies concerned money was well spent. _____________________________ Lance Allen Technical Officer Uni of Auckland Psych Dept New Zealand _____________________________

This is what I do. I tell the manufacturer what I'm making and that it's a prototype to ascertain the commercial viability of producing the device. This is usually what I'm doing... I see a design, and then play with a derivative of it, which I'll plan on selling (as a product, or a kit) once i have a commercially viable version. I don't know what the manufacturer thinks when I have to tick the "annual volumes" box at 1-999... I guess they hope for 999, whereas in reality (experience) I'd be lucky to buy ten in the first year. Des >>> Andy Kunz <RemoveMEsupportspam_OUTKILLspamMONTANADESIGN.COM> 8/24/99 11:58:55 pm >>> >This is a very controversial matter, and everyone needs to find out the >best way to deal with distributors. To quote someone famous in American history, Honesty is the best policy. I deal with sales companies all the time as part of my job. My hobbies also generate some sales for these same folks. When dealing with them, most of these sales guys have been told (by me) to ask if it's for business or for a "toy." If it's for business, they ask volume questions. If it isn't, the samples (not always free) come because of the volume of other business I do with them. You have to build a relationship with them. Always deal with the same person, treat him/her well, and BE HONEST. They won't ship samples if they figure out you're lying. So if it's a small run - tell them. If it's for a toy - tell them. Then when you tell them you have a big order, they'll believe you and when it comes through, everybody will be happy. Andy ================================================================== Andy Kunz Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity ------------------------------------------------------------------ RemoveMEandyTakeThisOuTspamrc-hydros.com http://www.rc-hydros.com - Race Boats EraseMEandyspamspamBeGonemontanadesign.com http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics ==================================================================

At 10:56 24/08/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Dennis, > >Well, maybe I didn't make myself clear,but I AM an electrical engineering >student at Cornell University. If I were not,then I would be lying and that >would be wrong. You are right,in general,I have no reason to expect free >samples from companies. However, when we are dealing with electronic >parts,they can at least expect that in a few years, I will be in a position >to select parts for large production runs,and I will be more likely to >select parts that I am familiar with. > >Sean Yes Sean, I DO KNOW THAT YOU are an ELECTICAL ENGINEERING STUDENT. I was just making the point that we should not have to missinform suppliers just to get a part, you don't tell the Milk Bar owner (Drug store?) that youre going to die of thirst if you don't get a drink now, just to get a drink do you? End of toppic Dennis {Quote hidden}> > >At 03:01 PM 8/24/99 +1000, you wrote: >>So it you want an electric motor do you say that you're a fan manufacturer? >>When you need a new motor for your car do you say that your a car designer? >>When you need a new vacum do you say that you wish to tial it for your >>cleaning company? >>When you want chewing gum, do you say that you're a taste tester? >>When you want a bottle of wine to you say that you're a wine conesire? >>When you want a new house, do you say that you're homeless? >>When you fail to stop at a red light and get caught by a read light >>cammera, do you say that you where testing the cammera operation? >> >>The list goes on... >> >> >>Dennis >> >| >| Sean Breheny >| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM >| Electrical Engineering Student >\--------------=---------------- >Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org >Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 >RemoveMEshb7KILLspamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174 >________________________________________________________ >NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? >Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at >http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > >

"Sean H. Breheny" wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > Well, maybe I didn't make myself clear,but I AM an electrical engineering > student at Cornell University. If I were not,then I would be lying and that > would be wrong. You are right,in general,I have no reason to expect free > samples from companies. However, when we are dealing with electronic > parts,they can at least expect that in a few years, I will be in a position > to select parts for large production runs,and I will be more likely to > select parts that I am familiar with. Years ago I took a minivan full of students to an electronics show. They were grabbing all the booklets, databooks and flyers they could. I heard one vendor telling his mate in full earshot of the particular student : "These students are like fucking vultures". They now have more buying power and bigger budgets than he does. -- Friendly Regards Tjaart van der Walt

Hi Tjaart, I wish I could say that would be likely to happen here. I dunno,maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture here,but I have yet to meet an EE student at Cornell who is also a real electronics hobbyist. It seems to me that they would only express mild interest in such materials at a trade show. What is perhaps worse than that is the response when I told my EE advisor that I was an electronics hobbyist and an amateur radio operator. IIRC, it was something like "Ah, I see". In my opinion,they should welcome such strong interest in the field with open arms. Sean At 06:01 AM 8/25/99 +0200, you wrote: {Quote hidden}> >Years ago I took a minivan full of students to an electronics show. >They were grabbing all the booklets, databooks and flyers they could. >I heard one vendor telling his mate in full earshot of the particular >student : "These students are like fucking vultures". They now have >more buying power and bigger budgets than he does. > >-- >Friendly Regards > >Tjaart van der Walt > | | Sean Breheny | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM | Electrical Engineering Student \--------------=---------------- Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 KILLspamshb7spamBeGonecornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174

"Sean H. Breheny" wrote: > > Hi Tjaart, > > I wish I could say that would be likely to happen here. I dunno,maybe I'm > not seeing the whole picture here,but I have yet to meet an EE student at > Cornell who is also a real electronics hobbyist. It seems to me that they > would only express mild interest in such materials at a trade show. > > What is perhaps worse than that is the response when I told my EE advisor > that I was an electronics hobbyist and an amateur radio operator. IIRC, it > was something like "Ah, I see". In my opinion,they should welcome such > strong interest in the field with open arms. > > Sean I am currently interviewing applicants for positions in the development lab. I won't take anyone who doesn't have a passion for electronics to the point of also doing it as a hobby. The worst engineer is the one who studied it because his/her advisor/parents said so. -- Friendly Regards /"\ \ / Tjaart van der Walt X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN EraseMEtjaartEraseMEcellpt.co.za / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL |--------------------------------------------------| | GSM Technology for Positioning and Telematics | | Cellpoint Systems SA http://www.cellpt.com | | http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html | | WGS84 -26.0124 +28.1129 Voice +27 (0)11 2545100 | |--------------------------------------------------|

Tjaart van der Walt wrote: [snip] > I am currently interviewing applicants for positions in the > development lab. I won't take anyone who doesn't have a > passion for electronics to the point of also doing it as a > hobby. > > The worst engineer is the one who studied it because his/her > advisor/parents said so. Some time ago I was selecting few people for the dev/lab too, and it was very interesting, I "planted" several objects into the waiting room. a) Few PC related magazines, b) Electronic Buyer's News paper, c) Two boards with microcontrollers d) Bare PCB's (no components) e) Few microcontrollers in a plastic tube f) Some circuit diagrams g) Some chips tech data sheet h) The Local Newspaper i) Time Magazine j) Sport Magazine k) Racing Car's Magazine When a candidate arrived, he was asked to wait for a whole minute in that room. The receptionist in the same room had the job to make notes of all objects the waiting "victim" touch, open, look or read. Of course the "victim" shouldn't notice it. I could be wrong, but we hired two guys: The first one found the "intentional" misplaced crystal connected to port pins instead the oscillator pins at the Orcad diagram printout, and he *told me that* during the enterview. The second told me that he found out about the receptionist writing. In real he played with her, she wrote two pages in less than a minute... :) Those were not the only reasons why we hired them, but coincidentaly it happened. You can say you are a lucky person when your "paid job" is also your hobby.

Wagner Lipnharski wrote: > Some time ago I was selecting few people for the dev/lab too, and it was > very interesting, I "planted" several objects into the waiting room. > > a) Few PC related magazines, > b) Electronic Buyer's News paper, > c) Two boards with microcontrollers > d) Bare PCB's (no components) > e) Few microcontrollers in a plastic tube > f) Some circuit diagrams > g) Some chips tech data sheet > h) The Local Newspaper > i) Time Magazine > j) Sport Magazine > k) Racing Car's Magazine > > When a candidate arrived, he was asked to wait for a whole minute in > that room. The receptionist in the same room had the job to make notes > of all objects the waiting "victim" touch, open, look or read. Of course > the "victim" shouldn't notice it. Wagner! You are wicked, wicked, wicked! I like it! I'll report back.... -- Friendly Regards /"\ \ / Tjaart van der Walt X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN @spam@tjaart@spam@spam_OUTcellpt.co.za / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL |--------------------------------------------------| | GSM Technology for Positioning and Telematics | | Cellpoint Systems SA http://www.cellpt.com | | http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html | | WGS84 -26.0124 +28.1129 Voice +27 (0)11 2545100 | |--------------------------------------------------|

At 01:06 25/08/99 -0400, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Tjaart van der Walt wrote: >[snip] >> I am currently interviewing applicants for positions in the >> development lab. I won't take anyone who doesn't have a >> passion for electronics to the point of also doing it as a >> hobby. >> >> The worst engineer is the one who studied it because his/her >> advisor/parents said so. > >Some time ago I was selecting few people for the dev/lab too, and it was >very interesting, I "planted" several objects into the waiting room. > >a) Few PC related magazines, >b) Electronic Buyer's News paper, >c) Two boards with microcontrollers >d) Bare PCB's (no components) >e) Few microcontrollers in a plastic tube >f) Some circuit diagrams >g) Some chips tech data sheet >h) The Local Newspaper >i) Time Magazine >j) Sport Magazine >k) Racing Car's Magazine > >When a candidate arrived, he was asked to wait for a whole minute in >that room. The receptionist in the same room had the job to make notes >of all objects the waiting "victim" touch, open, look or read. Of course >the "victim" shouldn't notice it. > >I could be wrong, but we hired two guys: The first one found the >"intentional" misplaced crystal connected to port pins instead the >oscillator pins at the Orcad diagram printout, and he *told me that* >during the enterview. The second told me that he found out about the >receptionist writing. In real he played with her, she wrote two pages in >less than a minute... :) Those were not the only reasons why we hired >them, but coincidentaly it happened. > >You can say you are a lucky person when your "paid job" is also your >hobby. > > Interesting to say the least, and very sneaky! The question is what was the percentage of people whom looked at the non technical related stuff to those that did? In my situtation I don't think that one minute would be enough before my inquisativness got the better of me. Also I think that I would be concerned about a company that left it's "washing" out in a waiting room for everyone to see. Perhaps these items placed in a more real situation would prevoke a btter response. Question for everyone-> Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? Dennis

On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 04:16:44PM +1000, Dennis Plunkett wrote: > > Interesting to say the least, and very sneaky! > The question is what was the percentage of people whom looked at the non > technical related stuff to those that did? > In my situtation I don't think that one minute would be enough before my > inquisativness got the better of me. Also I think that I would be concerned > about a company that left it's "washing" out in a waiting room for everyone > to see. Perhaps these items placed in a more real situation would prevoke a > btter response. Generally, my office is enough. I tend to use the archeological filing system (I think about how long ago I last saw it and I look about that far down into the piles) and the collection of stuff at the surface usually covers a pretty wide range. I consider it a big plus when applicants keep getting distracted, staring at the various stuff, or even better commenting on the relative merits of various parts that happen to be out. OTOH, just yesterday I was interviewing applicants for a procurement position, a job that requirs intense organzational skills and attention to detail. One of the applicants could hardly stand it and was picking things up off the floor and moving things so they wouldn't fall off the desk. I gave her a lot of bonus points for that... > Question for everyone-> > Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? In my case, I'm more often hiring people to do computer support, but the preferance is the same; I always look for the person who has set up a bedroom network with five PCs assembled from parts gotten from yard sales and cast-off equipment, and running as many different operating systems. My reason is this: Such a person quite clearly has an insatiable thirst for learning about this technology. In a business that changes as rapidly as ours, the fact that an applicant has learned a few things in the past is virtually irrelevent. In my experience, only the person who stays in a constant state of learning regarding the technology can do really well. If an applicant tells me that "I've been hearing about this Linux stuff for some time, but I can't really mess with the family PC", I take this as a strong indication that this is one of those horses that will keep begging to go to the trough, but every time he gets there will find some excuse not to drink. > Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- > Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? No, but I might be impressed if he spent his free time volunteering at clinics in lower-income neighborhoods or, as my doctor (who has a private, general practice) does, writing papers for and letters to medical journals, and regularly bringing medical students into his office to observe. I would strongly prefer someone who loves the practice of medicine and who might reschedule a few appointments to attend a morning seminar or maybe would carve out time to coach his daughter's soccer team, but would never shutter his office on Wednesday to play golf. --Bob -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem TakeThisOuTbob.....TakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

>You can say you are a lucky person when your "paid job" is also your >hobby. When I was a "kid engineer" that was true of me, too. I tested out of my early college programming classes by providing the one electronics prof (who also happened to have "programming 101") a digital simulation program which wrote <HACK GAG> BASIC source code for a circuit described as a net list. Now, I race model boats and build them for other racers. I designed my own electronics, including a data logger and telemetry system, to learn what's going on. But what I enjoy most are my kids. All 7 of them. Andy ================================================================== Andy Kunz Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity ------------------------------------------------------------------ TakeThisOuTandyKILLspamspamrc-hydros.com http://www.rc-hydros.com - Race Boats .....andyRemoveMEmontanadesign.com http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics ==================================================================

I'm slightly afraid that if I pursue electronics as a career, I will no longer enjoy it as a hobby... I'm likewise afraid I'd get stuck doing electrical work where there is no change. I feel like I have to keep learning new things to enjoy it... -Adam Tjaart van der Walt wrote: {Quote hidden}> > "Sean H. Breheny" wrote: > > > > Hi Tjaart, > > > > I wish I could say that would be likely to happen here. I dunno,maybe I'm > > not seeing the whole picture here,but I have yet to meet an EE student at > > Cornell who is also a real electronics hobbyist. It seems to me that they > > would only express mild interest in such materials at a trade show. > > > > What is perhaps worse than that is the response when I told my EE advisor > > that I was an electronics hobbyist and an amateur radio operator. IIRC, it > > was something like "Ah, I see". In my opinion,they should welcome such > > strong interest in the field with open arms. > > > > Sean > > I am currently interviewing applicants for positions in the > development lab. I won't take anyone who doesn't have a > passion for electronics to the point of also doing it as a > hobby. > > The worst engineer is the one who studied it because his/her > advisor/parents said so. > > -- > Friendly Regards /"\ > \ / > Tjaart van der Walt X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN > RemoveMEtjaartspamBeGonecellpt.co.za / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL > |--------------------------------------------------| > | GSM Technology for Positioning and Telematics | > | Cellpoint Systems SA http://www.cellpt.com | > | http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html | > | WGS84 -26.0124 +28.1129 Voice +27 (0)11 2545100 | > |--------------------------------------------------|

Well, I think that's quite different. First of all, you could say that a surgeon _does_ practice as a hobby considering the vast amount of education/training that is spent to become qualified in that profession. Also, while certainly not all, but many doctors work long hours ( and make good money doing it <g> ). You also have to consider the logistics of practicing surgery as a hobby <bg>. If you did find a surgeon practicing surgery in his basement, I wouldn't call him dedicated but a rather sick man <g>. All jests aside, the truth is that someone who loves what they do exudes enthusiasm and passion when talking about it. For instance, when someone makes the mistake of bring up anything computer/electronic/manufacturing ( my passions), they generally can't get me to shutup <g>. Eric > Question for everyone-> > Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? > Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- > Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? > > > Dennis

Dennis Plunkett wrote: [snip] > Question for everyone-> > Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? > Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- > Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? > Dennis For my part, that perspective has been formed by my experiences. Many, many years ago when I worked in electronics the best of the best were those who went home and experimented with the differences between xtal- filters and phasing for SSB generation ... or messed with this new thing called "hi-fi". Later, as a professional pilot, the best of the best both in the military and civilian sectors were the guys who ownded a Pitts, Citabria, or even an old Aztec. Now, as a parent who spends a lot of my free time at school with my 10 & 11 y.o. boys, I find that the best teachers are those who would be teaching without salary if there were no paid teaching jobs available. When Paul say' "Good work Igor, pass me that soldering scalpel", I hope to be on his patient list! - Nick -

Tjaart van der Walt wrote: > > Hey Tony, are you trawling for a job then? ;) I was thinking about it for a while. University life can get very slow at times. On the other hand, I introduced the department to PICs and have 'invented' a lot of uses for them here. Some really interesting projects crop up from time to time, like the one I'm doing now - remote controlling a 1600Kg 'slotcar' at up to 100Kph. I'm hoping a 16F8xx has the grunt to do the job. (When they are available) These are the sort of jobs that wake you up in the middle of the night because a new idea has somehow emerged out of the back of your dozing brain. Then it keeps you up for the rest of the night trying to figure it out. Geat stuff :-) > Let's just hope Paul's hobbies are not, uhm, job related. > "Doctor Webster, it is alive!" > "Good work Igor, pass me that soldering scalpel" Dr Phibes, eat your heart out. -- Best regards Tony http://www.picnpoke.com Email spamBeGonesales@spam@spam_OUTpicnpoke.com

From: Adam Davis < > >I'm slightly afraid that if I pursue electronics as a career, I will no longer >enjoy it as a hobby... I'm likewise afraid I'd get stuck doing electrical work >where there is no change. I feel like I have to keep learning new things to >enjoy it... Adam, If you enjoy electronics enough this will not be a problem. I have heard a number of people bemoan that what was a hobby is no longer enjoyable since it became their job - this applies in all sorts of jobs. BUT, if you tend to eat/dream/breathe electronics or whatever then, as someone else noted here recently, and as many very successful people have noted, "Imagine being paid to do what I would do for free if I could." I met one man who was fascinated by bumble-bees from his earlisest child-hood and he now has a PhD in a bumble-bee related topic and SELLS bumble bees for a living :-) - way to go! "Passion" is probably the driver. "Just sort of interested" may not be enough. Certainly, being able to direct which things you do and not just doing the same task over and over is to me a necessary part of the job's interest. While I'm not sold out on electronics (hardware & software) per se as the reason for existence I enjoy it immensely as a tool to achieve things. What this really means is that I greatly enjoy achieving things which can be achieved this way. An eg lawyer (shudder :-)) may say the same things about what he/she does but neither of us would be more than passingly interested in what the other is passionately consumed by. I am self employed with offices and workshop behind and under my home. I find that work and play merge into a seamless blur. The main problems are having time for other things (family, food, sleep, ...) and having time for the electronics related things I want to do as opposed to have to do. ie all are fun but the priority list may sometimes be ordered by clients. Working for yourself or as part of a small team who profit directly from the work done probably helps the enthusiasm level. I would have passed the "how many things did he look at in 1 minute" pre-employment test at any stage in my career to date. regrads Russell McMahon PS - I like what you all have done with my MAXIM small order thread :-)

>I have heard a number of people bemoan that what was a hobby is no longer >enjoyable since it became their job - this applies in all sorts of jobs. Been there. Hopefully I get TOO successful with the race boats! >in what the other is passionately consumed by. I am self employed with >offices and workshop behind and under my home. I find that work and play >merge into a seamless blur. The main problems are having time for other >things (family, food, sleep, ...) and having time for the electronics >related things I want to do as opposed to have to do. ie all are fun but Been there, done that. I'm back at a "real" job because I got stiffed by several customers (to the tune of $65K between three of them). My wife is much happier now that the income is more steady (although she really enjoyed the year I made $125K). >I would have passed the "how many things did he look at in 1 minute" >pre-employment test at any stage in my career to date. "Only one minute! Come on, Wagner, I'm not done playing yet!" Andy ================================================================== Andy Kunz Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity ------------------------------------------------------------------ TakeThisOuTandyspamrc-hydros.com http://www.rc-hydros.com - Race Boats andyEraseMEmontanadesign.com http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics ==================================================================

In message <3.0.32.19990825161642.006bb99c@huey>, Dennis Plunkett <RemoveMEdennisEraseMEspam_OUTRDD.NECA.NEC.COM.AU> writes >Question for everyone-> >Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? If they are interested, they are liable to be better at their job! - we get 'work experience' boys from the local schools and technical college (no attractive young girls - despite asking!). One of the first questions I ask is 'do you build things at home', the second is 'do you know your colour code' - the third is to throw a resistor at them :-). >Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- >Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? How do you know he doesn't? :-). -- Nigel. /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | Nigel Goodwin | Internet : @spam@nigelgRemoveMEEraseMElpilsley.demon.co.uk | | Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk | | Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit | | England | Ju Jitsu | \--------------------------------------------------------------/

In message <EraseME37C3FC99.8822821D@spam@baladyne.com>, Adam Davis <@spam@adavisspam_OUT.....BALADYNE.COM> writes >I'm slightly afraid that if I pursue electronics as a career, I will no longer >enjoy it as a hobby... I'm likewise afraid I'd get stuck doing electrical work >where there is no change. I feel like I have to keep learning new things to >enjoy it... I know what you mean!, I've been a TV/VCR/Satellite/Audio service engineer for 28 years, coming from a hobby background. Although I still build occasional projects I don't have the enthusiasm I used to have years ago - perhaps for this reason I've tended to head towards computers and software (PICS?) instead?. -- Nigel. /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | Nigel Goodwin | Internet : spamBeGonenigelgEraseMElpilsley.demon.co.uk | | Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk | | Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit | | England | Ju Jitsu | \--------------------------------------------------------------/

Uh oh, I'm partially color blind. I can do it if I stare at it for 5-10 seconds, but an employer might not be too impressed with that... -Adam (I remember oh so long ago when I bought a package of resisters on tape from RS. I asked my sister to help me sort through them, writing the value on the tape edge. (she didn't know the color code previously) She still did them an oder of magnitude faster than I...) Nigel Goodwin wrote: {Quote hidden}> > In message <3.0.32.19990825161642.006bb99c@huey>, Dennis Plunkett > <dennisspamBeGoneRDD.NECA.NEC.COM.AU> writes > >Question for everyone-> > >Why do we think that people whom have a hobby of electronics are better? > > If they are interested, they are liable to be better at their job! - we > get 'work experience' boys from the local schools and technical college > (no attractive young girls - despite asking!). One of the first > questions I ask is 'do you build things at home', the second is 'do you > know your colour code' - the third is to throw a resistor at them :-). > > >Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- > >Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a hobby? > > How do you know he doesn't? :-). > -- > > Nigel. > > /--------------------------------------------------------------\ > | Nigel Goodwin | Internet : RemoveMEnigelg@spam@spamBeGonelpilsley.demon.co.uk | > | Lower Pilsley | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk | > | Chesterfield | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit | > | England | Ju Jitsu | > \--------------------------------------------------------------/

Getting stale, but... Sean H. Breheny wrote: > What is perhaps worse than that is the response when I told my EE > advisor that I was an electronics hobbyist and an amateur radio > operator. IIRC, it was something like "Ah, I see". In my > opinion,they should welcome such strong interest in the field with > open arms. According to the lexicon, I think he is what they call a "suit". Dennis Plunkett wrote: > In my situtation I don't think that one minute would be enough before > my inquisitivness got the better of me. Also I think that I would be > concerned about a company that left it's "washing" out in a waiting > room for everyone to see. Ah, but recall that he said he noted two "intelligent" responses. One was to go for the "tech" stuff, the *other* was to pick the "set-up". > Before you answer that contemplate this off the cuff situation:- > Do you care that your family doctor does not practice surgery as a > hobby? There are a couple of traps in this question. *Very* few family doctors nowadays practice serious surgery. Many (and it is a dying thing as beaurocracy bites hard) do a little simple surgery at a level which you might well call "practice" or "hobby", in working hours. That's fine, you really *don't* need to be super-skilled to lift lumps off people's skin like you do for the hemi-thyroidectomy I assisted yesterday. If OTOH you are really talking about (specialist) surgeons, who perform urgent procedures at all hours, then you'll be hard-stretched *finding* one who doesn't spend a lot of time in this enterprise. They have pretty much integrated their work into their "hobby" time FBOW. One wonders as an aside, what "suits" do for a hobby. Pull wings off flies? -- Cheers, Paul B.

Hi Paul, At 08:59 AM 8/27/99 +1000, you wrote: > According to the lexicon, I think he is what they call a "suit". > Well, that would be the logical conclusion if the only info you had was what I told you. Actually, I am very puzzled by him. He DOES seem very interested in some engineering items because he asked me if I could figure out how to disable the mechanical door stop that he has. I figured it out in about 20 seconds and he said "Wow,do you want a job as an assistant of mine?"(he was actually joking,because I think he hires only grad students with more experience in IC fabrication,etc. He specializes in electromechanical/optical micromachines in silicon) He says that he regularly gives people that test (a bit akin to Wagner's idea). Perhaps he just didn't know what to say when I said I was into electronics as a hobby? I dunno, I am puzzled by the whole lot of them,actually! Maybe I just don't know any of them well enough. Sean | | Sean Breheny | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM | Electrical Engineering Student \--------------=---------------- Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 .....shb7@spam@EraseMEcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174