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'Manufacturing 2000 boards a month...'
1999\08\27@174301 by Gerardo Arroyo

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Hello everybody,

I have been subscribed to this list since last monday. I believe this is the
right place and maybe you can help me...let's say you have a working
prototype based in a PIC12C508 the size of a Basic Stamp II board (the
device could be a really annoying toy, an access control device for doors in
the home, etc.) and you have the commitment of a company to buy 2000 units
every month if the cost is 10.00 USD for unit...could you please share your
opinions, thoughts, suggestions about the approach that you would follow to
manufacture this thing  ?.

Some of the ways I have been exploring and evaluating are:

a). Outsource in Taiwan ?...2000 units for month seems a very small volume.
b). Buy parts + Outsource PCB's + Assemble in Mexico City ( I live in Mexico
City)
c). ...I don't have a c). option...in fact I am out of options.... "8o) .

Thanks !

Gerardo Arroyo
Bridge Technologies

e-mail: spam_OUTgarroyoTakeThisOuTspambridgetech.com.mx

1999\08\27@181920 by Francisco Armenta

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part 0 1558 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; (decoded 7bit)

For ensambling your PCB you can contact her in Puebla to Crouzet

for more information contacme privated to:

.....brionesKILLspamspam@spam@datasys.com.mx

Francisco

Gerardo Arroyo wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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1999\08\27@185248 by kirmse

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Gerardo Arroyo wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I have been subscribed to this list since last monday. I believe this is the
> right place and maybe you can help me...let's say you have a working
> prototype based in a PIC12C508 the size of a Basic Stamp II board (the
> device could be a really annoying toy, an access control device for doors in
> the home, etc.) and you have the commitment of a company to buy 2000 units
> every month if the cost is 10.00 USD for unit...could you please share your
> opinions, thoughts, suggestions about the approach that you would follow to
> manufacture this thing  ?.
>
> Some of the ways I have been exploring and evaluating are:
>
> a). Outsource in Taiwan ?...2000 units for month seems a very small volume.
> b). Buy parts + Outsource PCB's + Assemble in Mexico City ( I live in Mexico
> City)
> c). ...I don't have a c). option...in fact I am out of options.... "8o) .

You probably are going to want to "panelize" your design. Having a larger
V-scored PCB with many copies of your device should reduce the assembly
cost. The devices are snapped apart once assembly is done.

You should be able to have the raw PCB manufactured locally for less than
$1 USD .

I would suggest talking with some local assembly houses before either
exporting the manufacturing or doing it in house. A local house is likely
to have some suggestions on how to reduce the cost of manufacture.

The bottom line, I guess, would be to shop around.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dr. Kevin Dale Kirmse, PhD EE
| Portable System Design, High Speed Serial Links
| FPGA Design, Video Hardware, Graphics Hardware
|
| King of Prussia, PA 19406
| .....kirmseKILLspamspam.....netaxs.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1999\08\27@193502 by Mark Walsh

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{Quote hidden}

I would guess that 2000 boards of that size might be too low a volume to be
done cost effectively in Asia.  Check with the local contract manufacturing
houses in your area.  They will probably want the boards web routed on a
panel with 100-150 boards per panel.  With pick and place machines and
reflow ovens they could do your entire months run in short order.  You
should also look into having them purchase the parts.  Because of their
volumes, they can often get much better pricing than you would.

One last thought on this.  Most of the value added to any product tends to
be in manufacturing.  Don't be too surprised to find the contract assembly
house making more money on your product than you do.  You can buy a low end
(but still automated) surface mount assembly line for about US$ 50k.  If
your volumes pick up, the time to recover your capital costs can be
amazingly short.

Good luck on your product

Mark Walsh

1999\08\27@194639 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Fri, Aug 27, 1999 at 05:32:42PM -0000, Mark Walsh wrote:
>
> You can buy a low end (but still automated) surface mount
> assembly line for about US$ 50k.

Intriguing. From whom, what model, and how big are they?
Do you have Web links?

--Bob, DIY obsessed.

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
bobspamspam_OUTdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\08\27@222821 by Anne Ogborn

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Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 1999 at 05:32:42PM -0000, Mark Walsh wrote:
> >
> > You can buy a low end (but still automated) surface mount
> > assembly line for about US$ 50k.
>
> Intriguing. From whom, what model, and how big are they?
> Do you have Web links?
>
> --Bob, DIY obsessed.
>


Me too. ??????

--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html

1999\08\27@232705 by Gerardo Arroyo

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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Thank you very much to all of you for your
feedback !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Amazing thing to ask to the world...and the
world answers...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I guess I will shop around and ask for some bids
locally...first...after all we live in a global economy and with NAFTA who knows
?.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I knew this was the right place !&nbsp;
&quot;8o)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Best Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Gerardo Arroyo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Product Manager</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Bridge Technologies</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>e-mail: <A
href="@spam@garroyoKILLspamspambridgetech.com.mx">KILLspamgarroyoKILLspamspambridgetech.com.mx</A></FONT></DIV>> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>

1999\08\29@134627 by V sml

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Hi Geraro,

If you can get me all your detail requirements, I would be able
to help you to get some actual price quotes in Singapore.  The price
is quite competitive for contract manufacturing here.  This way you
can
eliminate a lot of guessworks.

Contrary to what other have suggested, I would not suggest you to go
DIY.
Do what you do best.  Manufacturing margin (here) in razor thin from
what I
know. The game here is to get the machine running 24 hours.

Ling SM
I-Pal Communications
RemoveMEsm.lingTakeThisOuTspamcmpmail.com

snipped
>c). ...I don't have a c). option...in fact I am out of options....
snipped

1999\08\29@185613 by Dennis Plunkett

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At 01:36 30/08/99 +0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Be very affraid.
I have not followed this thread much, but I would have to say that 2000
board per month is nothing! To any manufacturer worth his salt. My guess
would be that they would attempt ot get you to make say 20000 and alter all
your bills of materials etc just to save money (In fact it will cost you
more! as you will have to support the costs up front) Note that you can not
by these in 2000 lots i.e. the manufacturer will supply costing to you to
force you into a large run. Why? Look at the above,



>Do what you do best.  Manufacturing margin (here) in razor thin from
>what I know. Yes this may be so, but setup costs and others arounf it are
not (including procurment costs)

>The game here is to get the machine running 24 hours.

This is the bit, in 24 hours a plant will make 20000 units! (Do you think
that they would stop a plant for a run of 10% of a days capacity? (Not I))


In your case it will be the cost of materials that get you, not the cost to
make.


Dennis

1999\08\30@003810 by A Rudzki

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>
> >The game here is to get the machine running 24 hours.
>
> This is the bit, in 24 hours a plant will make 20000 units! (Do you think
> that they would stop a plant for a run of 10% of a days capacity? (Not I))
>
I think their point is that the place is MANNED 24 hours a day, so for the
machines to be idle at all is a waste of money.

Idle machines with workers sitting nearby doesn't make anyone money.


tony

1999\08\31@025716 by V sml

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Some economic here, Total cost = fixed cost + variable cost. As long
as the return is higher than variable cost, it helps to offset some of
the fixed cost.  This would help to boost profit or cut lost whichever
you want to put it.

Different kind of plants have different cost points.

So again, the game here is to get the machine running 24 hours to
boost profits, or to cut losses.

Ling
TakeThisOuTsm.lingEraseMEspamspam_OUTcmpmail.com

>> >The game here is to get the machine running 24 hours.

>I think their point is that the place is MANNED 24 hours a day, so
for the
>machines to be idle at all is a waste of money.

>The other poster was correct in that time is money and production
plant
proffits are trimmed to the bone, but that is for constant runs of
100000
items or more. Infact you will find that some manufacturers will not
look
at you unless you talk runs of 1000000+++. Not for the people cost,
but the plant cost

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