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PICList Thread
'Programming PIC Flash devices'
1999\08\03@085643 by s Andersson

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Hi !

Is there a cheap programmer (like the one for 16F84) that I can
use to program the new Flash devices from Microchip (16C877 etc) ?
Either ICP or standalone programming.

All tips about programs, programmers etc are welcome, since I am
planning to use a Flash device in a project.

Mathias Andersson
e-mail : spam_OUTmathias.anderssonTakeThisOuTspammbox309.swipnet.se

1999\08\03@100851 by Joseph Rutsky

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I haven't had time to try it, but I built the p16pro40.  It's supposed
to be able to program them.  Let me know how you make out.

Joe

1999\08\03@102101 by gschieppati

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hi Mathias,

I think that you can get the very low cost mplab-icd
from microchip

--- Mathias Andersson
<.....mathias.anderssonKILLspamspam@spam@MBOX309.SWIPNET.SE> scritto:
{Quote hidden}

===
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1999\08\03@114622 by wzab

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On Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 02:43:25PM -0000, Mathias Andersson wrote:
> Hi !
>
> Is there a cheap programmer (like the one for 16F84) that I can
> use to program the new Flash devices from Microchip (16C877 etc) ?
> Either ICP or standalone programming.
>
> All tips about programs, programmers etc are welcome, since I am
> planning to use a Flash device in a project.
>
I think that any programmer able to program PIC16F84/16C84
(eg. http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/picprog/picprog.html) is able to programm
16C877.
It is only a matter of different pin layout, so you need to connect another
socket parallelly to the original one.

The programming specifications:
16F8XX: www.microchip.com/Download/Lit/Specs/39025b.pdf
16F84: www.microchip.com/Download/Lit/Specs/30262b.pdf
are pretty the same.
The only difference is the low voltage programming mode (so may be
the RB3 pin should be additionally pulled down with eg. 3k resistor).

Have I missed something?
--
                       Wojciech Zabolotny
                       @spam@wzabKILLspamspamise.pw.edu.pl

http://www.debian.org  Use Linux - save your data and time

1999\08\03@124722 by Anne Ogborn

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> I think that any programmer able to program PIC16F84/16C84
> (eg. http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/picprog/picprog.html) is able to programm
> 16C877.

I had a cheapy no-name programmer for the 16F84, and it won't
program the 16C558
Had to get a new one.

--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html

1999\08\03@155611 by Sam Laur

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> The only difference is the low voltage programming mode (so may be
> the RB3 pin should be additionally pulled down with eg. 3k resistor).
>
> Have I missed something?

Yes. If you're using a programmer designed for 16F84, there's a slight but
important difference: for 16F877 (and 16F84A), there's Begin Erase Prog. Cycle
which is 001000 and Begin Programming Only Cycle which is 011000.

Now, for the 16F84 there's just Begin Programming which is 001000. So if you
try to write to the program memory, it will fail because of this difference
in commands.

1999\08\03@182039 by Wesley Moore (Yallara)

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Don from Dontronics has a new SimmStick on the way which can be used with
his DT001 programmer.

Check out the page below for more info:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Mathias Andersson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\08\03@190716 by Tony Nixon

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The Engine is free and it can program these new Flash based chips.

Unfortunately the link is still down until the new ISP comes online.
Soon I hope.

Mathias Andersson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Best regards

Tony

'The Engine' - Design your own programmer.

http://www.picnpoke.com/engine.html
Email ???

1999\08\03@202034 by Gennette Bruce

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You are asking how to program the newer devices with the older
hardware/software.

The answer (in both cases) is that it is possible, but you need a little
adaptation.

For the hardware you need to make an extension lead that has a suitable plug
on one end (to fit into your programer board) and a suitable socket at the
other end (to hold your newer, bigger PIC).  The actual cable between the
plug and  socket will only have about 5 wires in it (depends on serial
programing requirements for the newer chip).  Several developers are working
on this at the moment and publication is imminent (or has already occurred).

For the software - most of the public domain stuff is user extendable for
chip definitions so expect to see several Real-Soon-Now.  Unfortunately
extra commands needed during program transfer require re-writes of the
actual programer software and will take a little longer, but don't give up
hope, most of the people who wrote the original programs won't let a little
thing like a moving target beat them.  Expect to see revised versions from
most of them in the near future - in particular Don McKenzie has an up to
date set of links; check there often.

Bye.

               -----Original Message-----
               From:   Mathias Andersson
[SMTP:spamBeGonemathias.anderssonspamBeGonespamMBOX309.SWIPNET.SE]
               Sent:   Wednesday, 4 August 1999 0:43
               To:     TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
               Subject:        Programming PIC Flash devices


1999\08\03@203105 by Tony Nixon

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Gennette Bruce wrote:

> Unfortunately extra commands needed during program transfer require re-writes
of the
> actual programer software and will take a little longer, but don't give up
> hope, most of the people who wrote the original programs won't let a little
> thing like a moving target beat them.  Expect to see revised versions from
> most of them in the near future

That's the best part about The Engine programmer, you can update the
software yourself.

--
Best regards

Tony

"COMING SOON"
A Parallax to PIC source code converter.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email ???

1999\08\03@215117 by Byron A Jeff

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>
> > I think that any programmer able to program PIC16F84/16C84
> > (eg. http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/picprog/picprog.html) is able to program
m
> > 16C877.
>
> I had a cheapy no-name programmer for the 16F84, and it won't
> program the 16C558
> Had to get a new one.

Reason is simple. The 16C558 is EPROM based while the 16F84 is flash based
which is self timed for programming. EPROMS need to be pulsed by sending
start/stop programming commands 100uS apart. With the flash parts one only
needs to send the start programming command and wait 10ms. In short they are
radically different programming algorithms.

Now since both the 16F8XX and the 16F84 are flash based, they use the same
programming algorithm.

>From what I've read the only real differences are that the 16F8XX parts
can be programmed with 5V only and that the configuration fuses are different.
And the obvious package differences...

It shouldn't be too hard to adapt existing 16F84 programmers to program
16F8XX parts. But it won't work without some software changes....

BTW the best way to build a EPROM based PIC programmer is to build a Flash
based PIC programmer, program a Flash based PIC with some precise timing
software to program the EPROM based PIC. That's the best way to bootstrap if
the objective is to keep costs down.

BAJ

1999\08\04@052452 by Miro

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I have an "Tait Style" programmer (slightly modified for ICSP - added some
diodes...) and I was desperately seeking for some software that I can use to
program new F877s. And I found it. It's Bojan Dobaj's P16PRO. It can be
customized for any parallel programmer you can find out there and for new
PICMicros as well. You can find it at:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620/

Miro

Miroslav Hibler
RemoveMEmhiblerspamTakeThisOuTusa.net

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1999\08\06@122912 by netquake

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Check: http://virtuaweb.com/picprog

> Hi !
>
> Is there a cheap programmer (like the one for 16F84) that I can
> use to program the new Flash devices from Microchip (16C877 etc) ?
> Either ICP or standalone programming.
>
> All tips about programs, programmers etc are welcome, since I am
> planning to use a Flash device in a project.
>
> Mathias Andersson
> e-mail : mathias.anderssonEraseMEspam.....mbox309.swipnet.se
>
>
------------------------------------
netQ <EraseMEnetquakespaminnocent.com>
http://virtuaweb.com/picprog
"Home of amateur PIC programmers..."

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